Antithesis of Rolex
Discussion
DJMC said:
Yes, that's what's stopped me buying anything so far, including the CH Ward C60 Trident 300 which mysteriously reduced in price after I'd left it in my "basket" overnight and received an email from them to remind me the next day...
It looks very nice, and the thread from a few days ago revealed others who rate them, but I'd never heard of the brand before then.
Sold out now. 2017 range debuts tomorrow apparently. Damn!It looks very nice, and the thread from a few days ago revealed others who rate them, but I'd never heard of the brand before then.
cbmotorsport said:
Yup. I bought a Steinhart Ocean One Black to try and scratch the Sub itch. It didn't. If anything it made it worse as I liked the look of the watch, but always felt a bit false as it wasn't the real thing. 2 months after buying the Steinhart, I flipped it (at a loss) and bought a Sub.
Yes, I was having this same argument with myself in bed last night.So I buy a £150 "homage" watch, and the Orients do look rather good, but when do I wear it and how do I feel? I have to leave my Rolex Datejust at home, and then wander around with an "inferior" watch on my arm? What's the point? How long would the infatuation with its look last?
Even if it was a Sub (or Fifty Fathoms!) I'm still worse off as I then have two genuine items of expensive jewellery which I can't wear at the same time yet cost twice as much as just one!
But then my wife has four Chanel handbags, so we'd both be in the "I just like to have tham and stroke them occasionally" camp.
Actually, it's very similar as she uses her GST bag every day, but the others are for "special occasions". Ah, but then her GST isn't a "fake" and didn't cost £150! Still, it's a good argument to use when she says "why do you want another watch" but she'd no doubt counter with "if you have to have another one, at least get a proper one, like I do with my bags." Hang on... have I just gone back to "Even if it was a Sub..." above?
Well, at least if I buy a wisely, as I have with my other hobbies, I can always get my money back on a cheapie when I come to my senses!
BTW, do these look cheap for Seiko?: http://seiko-citizen-orient-direct.co.uk/seiko-div...
Are they legit?
Are they legit?
I was faced with the same dilemma a couple of years ago. I wanted a Sub-alike and was impressed with Steinhart and Chris Ward. However, the knowledgeable types on PH suggested I would be wearing my perfectly good Sub-alike and wishing it was a Sub.
I scraped the funds together, negotiated a cracking deal with Dom at Hackett Watches and bought a brand-new no-date Sub. It hasn't been off my wrist since then, consigning the other watches in my very modest collection to a lifetime in their Lidl tea-box.
If you want a Sub, find a way of getting a Sub, otherwise you'll still want one after spending on a Steinhart or CW.
If you want a well-made, good looking dive watch, a Steinhart or CW will be just fine. I've bought a CW Trident Pro 600 for each of my two sons and they both think they're great.
I scraped the funds together, negotiated a cracking deal with Dom at Hackett Watches and bought a brand-new no-date Sub. It hasn't been off my wrist since then, consigning the other watches in my very modest collection to a lifetime in their Lidl tea-box.
If you want a Sub, find a way of getting a Sub, otherwise you'll still want one after spending on a Steinhart or CW.
If you want a well-made, good looking dive watch, a Steinhart or CW will be just fine. I've bought a CW Trident Pro 600 for each of my two sons and they both think they're great.
Trouble is... ever since someone here pointed out the Rolex Sub is a pretender to Blancpain, I'd perhaps forever be thinking the same about the Rolex!
But then from a show-off, ego, point of view very few people would know my Blancpain was the original model for the Rolex Sub.
Of course I'd still be smug in the knowledge I have a classic watch, as I am currently with my Datejust.
So what IS it that I want?
The look - yes.
An expensive "unknown" brand (Blancpain) - no.
An expensive well known brand (Rolex) - yes.
A cheap "unknown" brand (Orient) - yes.
Quality and reliability - yes.
So, if I don't want the original, the Blancpain, and I don't want to fork out right now for a Rolex, it's then just down to matching price point with brand/image.
I think a Casio MDV-106-1A at £45 brand new fails as it's both a "cheap" brand and quartz, albeit from a big manufacturer and likely to be reliable and well made:
http://www.greatwatches.co.uk/products/casio-mdv-1...
So the Orient Mako or Ray seems to still fit the bill. But will I ever wear it?
Why am I so prepossessed by this idea!?
But then from a show-off, ego, point of view very few people would know my Blancpain was the original model for the Rolex Sub.
Of course I'd still be smug in the knowledge I have a classic watch, as I am currently with my Datejust.
So what IS it that I want?
The look - yes.
An expensive "unknown" brand (Blancpain) - no.
An expensive well known brand (Rolex) - yes.
A cheap "unknown" brand (Orient) - yes.
Quality and reliability - yes.
So, if I don't want the original, the Blancpain, and I don't want to fork out right now for a Rolex, it's then just down to matching price point with brand/image.
I think a Casio MDV-106-1A at £45 brand new fails as it's both a "cheap" brand and quartz, albeit from a big manufacturer and likely to be reliable and well made:
http://www.greatwatches.co.uk/products/casio-mdv-1...
So the Orient Mako or Ray seems to still fit the bill. But will I ever wear it?
Why am I so prepossessed by this idea!?
DJMC said:
I've done some research on Orient. Owned by Seiko Epson.
Excellent video here explains the differences:
https://youtu.be/JoVzOY5Q46I
One of my oldest watches is an Orient. I've owned it for almost 20 years and bought it pre-owned. I've been very happy with mine and wouldn't hesitate in purchasing another.Excellent video here explains the differences:
https://youtu.be/JoVzOY5Q46I
DJMC said:
klmhcp said:
All advice is subjective in this game.
Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.
In other words, don't f
k about.
Yes, that's what's stopped me buying anything so farMine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.
In other words, don't f
k about. DJMC said:
Yes, I know! I'd only wear one watch at a time so what is the point of having more than one? The collectors out there will doubtless say "for different occasions" or "it's nice to have them" or "investment".
SNIP
I have bought many, many cameras, rifles, saxophones at bargain prices but that was after research which took many years as I took up each as a hobby which involved both using the items and then collecting. With watches I can't really see them as a "useful" hobby so as to get into them the same way. And without this involvement I'm less likely to do very involved research into all the brands.
Add to that the fact that cameras, rifles, and saxophones don't much get faked and it looks like I'm on to a loser with finding a "bargain" divers watch!
So, anyone care to offer any advice or is it simply down to hundreds of hours of reading up on what's what?
Sure most people are going to tell you to buy a Rolex, otherwise you won't be satisfied. Buy anything inferior and you'll just wish you'd bought a proper submariner. It will hold its value and is going to make you feel like a better person. SNIP
I have bought many, many cameras, rifles, saxophones at bargain prices but that was after research which took many years as I took up each as a hobby which involved both using the items and then collecting. With watches I can't really see them as a "useful" hobby so as to get into them the same way. And without this involvement I'm less likely to do very involved research into all the brands.
Add to that the fact that cameras, rifles, and saxophones don't much get faked and it looks like I'm on to a loser with finding a "bargain" divers watch!
So, anyone care to offer any advice or is it simply down to hundreds of hours of reading up on what's what?
But you've already got a beautiful Rolex and you're not satisfied with that, like your other hobbies, you're wanting another and another and then moving on to the next thing. What's next? Cycling? Motorbikes? Girlfriends?
Is the answer something to do with not buying more stuff you don't need and isn't actually making you happy or satisfied ?
But I know you haven't come here for some nosey, self-righteousf t
t to bang on about consumerism and wanting, so you should definitely buy a submariner, then a GMT and then take up cycling. 
DJMC said:
Yes, I was having this same argument with myself in bed last night.
So I buy a £150 "homage" watch, and the Orients do look rather good, but when do I wear it and how do I feel? I have to leave my Rolex Datejust at home, and then wander around with an "inferior" watch on my arm? What's the point? How long would the infatuation with its look last?
Even if it was a Sub (or Fifty Fathoms!) I'm still worse off as I then have two genuine items of expensive jewellery which I can't wear at the same time yet cost twice as much as just one!
But then my wife has four Chanel handbags, so we'd both be in the "I just like to have tham and stroke them occasionally" camp.
Actually, it's very similar as she uses her GST bag every day, but the others are for "special occasions". Ah, but then her GST isn't a "fake" and didn't cost £150! Still, it's a good argument to use when she says "why do you want another watch" but she'd no doubt counter with "if you have to have another one, at least get a proper one, like I do with my bags." Hang on... have I just gone back to "Even if it was a Sub..." above?
Well, at least if I buy a wisely, as I have with my other hobbies, I can always get my money back on a cheapie when I come to my senses!
You had an argument with yourself in bed and stroked some bags.So I buy a £150 "homage" watch, and the Orients do look rather good, but when do I wear it and how do I feel? I have to leave my Rolex Datejust at home, and then wander around with an "inferior" watch on my arm? What's the point? How long would the infatuation with its look last?
Even if it was a Sub (or Fifty Fathoms!) I'm still worse off as I then have two genuine items of expensive jewellery which I can't wear at the same time yet cost twice as much as just one!
But then my wife has four Chanel handbags, so we'd both be in the "I just like to have tham and stroke them occasionally" camp.
Actually, it's very similar as she uses her GST bag every day, but the others are for "special occasions". Ah, but then her GST isn't a "fake" and didn't cost £150! Still, it's a good argument to use when she says "why do you want another watch" but she'd no doubt counter with "if you have to have another one, at least get a proper one, like I do with my bags." Hang on... have I just gone back to "Even if it was a Sub..." above?
Well, at least if I buy a wisely, as I have with my other hobbies, I can always get my money back on a cheapie when I come to my senses!
DJMC said:
Even if it was a Sub (or Fifty Fathoms!) I'm still worse off as I then have two genuine items of expensive jewellery which I can't wear at the same time yet cost twice as much as just one!
I'd not buy a FF, they're hateful precious looking efforts.I've been through the whole buying cheap watches thing and wasted a lot of money in small increments. I've bought a lot of decent watches too (Rolex usually) and, as far as I recall, I've never sold one at a loss. Which is impressive given that I always buy and sell through shops / dealers.
When I was younger I used to have one good watch, carefully chosen, which I liked and remained happy with. As I have grown older I have developed a similar problem to you: collecting. It's not a fufilling place to be, honestly, and am pleased that currently I am in remission.
aquarianone said:
Fwiw, I think Orient are pretty decent value for money and wouldn't lump them in with no name knock-offs, just my opinion...
I've got 2 Orients and a Steinhart Pepsi GMT and at their price points think they're pretty decent
+1 for Orient. Don't let the low pricing fool you; Orient makes decent watches. Moreover, the Orient Star range is superb. (Orient Star is a more premium range than the regular Orient range.)I've got 2 Orients and a Steinhart Pepsi GMT and at their price points think they're pretty decent
I've had an Orient Star and Steinhart: both good watches and, if anything, the Orient Star was higher quality. I'd put my Orient Star's build quality on a par with Longines (apart from the leather straps, where Orient clearly saves money).cbmotorsport said:
klmhcp said:
All advice is subjective in this game.
Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.
In other words, don't fk about.
Yup. I bought a Steinhart Ocean One Black to try and scratch the Sub itch. It didn't. If anything it made it worse as I liked the look of the watch, but always felt a bit false as it wasn't the real thing. 2 months after buying the Steinhart, I flipped it (at a loss) and bought a Sub. Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.
In other words, don't f
k about. 
DJMC said:
Trouble is... ever since someone here pointed out the Rolex Sub is a pretender to Blancpain, I'd perhaps forever be thinking the same about the Rolex!
Blancpain invented the genre with the 50f, but I disagree that the original Submariner is an any way a copy. This is often-repeated, but I wouldn't regard it as knowledge or fact if I were you...GC8 said:
Blancpain invented the genre with the 50f, but I disagree that the original Submariner is an any way a copy. This is often-repeated, but I wouldn't regard it as knowledge or fact if I were you...
Yes, I do actually agree, as it's not very similar to the 50f. Same "type" but a different look.Here's an Orient I spotted which IS very similar to the Sub: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201784632686?_trksid=p20...
It's the first model shown in this explanatory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoVzOY5Q46I&fe...
BUT, despite saying it has the original bracelet, the stamp and logo are missing on the clasp (as shown at 0:47 in the video) plus the bezel is damaged. Otherwise a rarer watch than the current Ray II.
Talking of Ray vs Mako, I see the Ray has the nicer bezel and dots whereas the Mako has markers and numbers.
I prefer the Ray look, but of the Rays which is better... the discontinued Ray I with its date pusher, or the Ray II with crown features and a cleaner look? Just down to personal preference I guess?
Not that I'm still looking of course...
I went the other way. Got a black bezel GMT (16700) about 20 years ago. Started putting it on a NATO strap and got into Seiko divers. These older rolexes had rattly bracelets and folded end links and I got bored with it.
Now have SKX 007 and Orange Monster. Got some Citizen Ecodrives as well, good option if you're not fussed about (solar) quartz. The BN0100 has Solid end links (SELs), a proper "DIVER'S 200m" and a ratcheting mech on the bracelet, all for 150 pounds or so.
I just change the strap when I get a new watch craving and divers watches lend themselves well to rubber, NATOs, other metal bracelets, shark mesh and even leather.
Still, doesn't stop me looking at the BIG divers, like the Tunas and Ecozillas.
I still look at the Grand Seiko SBGA029 often. And Seiko have some interesting new solar divers out.
If you got a Submariner, how long will it be before you want a GMT, then a Deep Sea, then a Daytona?
Now have SKX 007 and Orange Monster. Got some Citizen Ecodrives as well, good option if you're not fussed about (solar) quartz. The BN0100 has Solid end links (SELs), a proper "DIVER'S 200m" and a ratcheting mech on the bracelet, all for 150 pounds or so.
I just change the strap when I get a new watch craving and divers watches lend themselves well to rubber, NATOs, other metal bracelets, shark mesh and even leather.
Still, doesn't stop me looking at the BIG divers, like the Tunas and Ecozillas.
I still look at the Grand Seiko SBGA029 often. And Seiko have some interesting new solar divers out.
If you got a Submariner, how long will it be before you want a GMT, then a Deep Sea, then a Daytona?
Yes, I see that having two Rolex watches would be even worse than a Rolex and a cheapie as I'd always be leaving an expensive watch behind whereas the cheapie could be for when I wish to remain inconspicuous and so I wear my Rolex 99% of the time.
Any excuse for buying another "toy" eh?
I do admit to be in the "buy for the sake of buying" camp when it comes to boy's toys. Apart from my Porsche of course. That just serves a purpose.
...just thought... should I buy a cheap car for when I wear the cheap watch?
Any excuse for buying another "toy" eh?
I do admit to be in the "buy for the sake of buying" camp when it comes to boy's toys. Apart from my Porsche of course. That just serves a purpose.
...just thought... should I buy a cheap car for when I wear the cheap watch?
DJMC said:
Yes, I see that having two Rolex watches would be even worse than a Rolex and a cheapie as I'd always be leaving an expensive watch behind whereas the cheapie could be for when I wish to remain inconspicuous and so I wear my Rolex 99% of the time.
Any excuse for buying another "toy" eh?
I do admit to be in the "buy for the sake of buying" camp when it comes to boy's toys. Apart from my Porsche of course. That just serves a purpose.
...just thought... should I buy a cheap car for when I wear the cheap watch?
See the thread about "poverty Porsches". Some of the Boxters are very tempting, or maybe a 996 for when you wear a Steinhart and aRolex for an air cooled 911.Any excuse for buying another "toy" eh?
I do admit to be in the "buy for the sake of buying" camp when it comes to boy's toys. Apart from my Porsche of course. That just serves a purpose.
...just thought... should I buy a cheap car for when I wear the cheap watch?
Just kidding. I prefer the 944 / 968s anyway.
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