Sub Mod

[996Type]

Latest on this is that my watch is now apart and we are looking at various options.

The spindles on the 3000 work out 145/95/23 for H/M/S respectively.

Minute and second spindle fit are fine.

Hour aperture though is too big and as they have a collar as part of the standard hour hand mechanism, compressing it slightly to bridge the minuscule gap is a non-starter (see image below)…

We have a few hand sets of the after market type and are experimenting with ways to bridge the larger hole to fit the smaller spindle.

I’m now exploring if the aperture can be filled in completely with metal then drilled back out to 145, we are going to try first with epoxy to see if the concept works.

Does anyone know of any jewellers that could do the metal work? I don’t expect it’s too complex for someone making rings for example.

Also found this lovely watch based on a more modern sub base while researching the hands.

https://wildmanbespoke.com/collection/wildman-mili...

[dom9]

Great to see this still going! Thanks for the update!

Can't help on sleeving the hand but it's great to see you have it on the workbench to work it all out!

That modern take on the 5517 is lovely!!

I would be scouring AliExpress for alternative hand options with spindle diameter details... even if the hands have a smaller hole, they can be opened up / broached.

The other thing i was wondering; whilst not sword hands, you could get a set of 6-digit maxi hands re-lumed green to match the 14060 dial plots.

They'll still be a Mercedes style set but much wider hands with more lume area, etc. Should appear far more prominent.

Now we have the sizes; I'll have a poke around for you this evening as well! Something ETA/Seiko/Omega/other will no doubt be able to be made to work.

[996Type]

Thank you Dom,

I’d have a set of broadsword hands made if it came to it, sure there must be a way to get a version that’s a smaller mount….

[dom9]

996Type said:

The spindles on the 3000 work out 145/95/23 for H/M/S respectively.

ETA 2824 (and most ETAs) are 150/90/25... Could the seconds be reduced at all?

NH35 are 159/90/20 hand size, I think... not much you can do with that second hand, I'd say.

I'd fancy an ETA second hand could be made to work with a little attention:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170921518203

https://rafflestime.com/white-metallic-sword-hands...

I'd rather use Raffles, AliX or anyone other than WholeSaleOutlet (had a bad experience) but they're common.

I also have Rolex 3035 & 3135 as 140/90/22, which appear to vary slightly from yours but I'd venture the seconds/sweep would be close enough/the same.

Rolex15XX are 120/80/20 so the seconds is too small.

Couldn't immediately find a 3035/3135 sword set but I am sure I will come across something.

I think the spindle on the Omega may be 18, frustratingly: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192306411630

Honestly though; could just keep the standard seconds hand, if you have swords for H and M.

Or just modify the spindle on any old set that has the right length, etc.

[gregs656]

Following this with interest. I much prefer the sword hands.

Don't think I'd go fauxtina lume but I see the appeal.

[996Type]

Thanks for the responses, the M/S hands can both be adjusted at the mount point a little to make good but the hour hand has a collar that means it needs to be very close to the original spec to allow reworking (ideally smaller to drill out as opposed to larger to add material to bridge it, which will be my next plan).

Not my pics (credit James) but the minute and second hands can be made to fit OK, it’s just the hour hand we need to work out a solution for as it’s design is more complex in 3D.

Any spindle that looks close to working size wise then makes the hand shorter in length so it grates against the other hands.

Below images on the gauge might help illustrate it better…

[996Type]

[pistolpedro]

Would an hour hand designed for Vostok 2416 potentially be an option?

From what I understand it has the following sizes

S = 0.17mm
M = 0.90mm
H = 1.4mm

Just thinking if the hour hand could be broached

There a few different options here

https://rafflestime.com/search.php?search_query=sw...

Edited by pistolpedro on Tuesday 27th February 18:40

[dom9]

pistolpedro said:

Would an hour hand designed for Vostok 2416 potentially be an option?

From what I understand it has the following sizes

S = 0.17mm
M = 0.90mm
H = 1.4mm

Just thinking if the hour hand could be broached

There a few different options here

https://rafflestime.com/search.php?search_query=sw...

Edited by pistolpedro on Tuesday 27th February 18:40

I must have misread about it being the hour hand!

Yes, same, same at Raffles: https://rafflestime.com/white-metallic-sword-watch...

Easy life!

Also, 3035: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yellow-Sword-Watch-Hands-...

[996Type]

Quick update, before and after shots…..

Really happy with the results, my photos don’t do it justice and I can also see to tell the time again!

[dom9]

Fantastic - turned out well!

I'm wearing almost everything on a NATO these days as well!

What was the final parts list / work done?

[996Type]

Thanks Dom,

We ended up with around 6X hand sets to create a bitsa, the Vostok tip given above led us to the hour hand we needed (thanks for the suggestion!!)

Had the “T” printed on the dial, only because it was with a firm that had the mask and originally I was going to have it done in lume but the paint was too thick to attempt it, so just went with standard white while there.

Final lume is a vintage off white (very bright from what I can see).

Watch is really transformed now, images don’t do it justice.

All reversible and I have the original handset stored away….

[gregs656]

Looks so much better. Nice work.

[996Type]

Lume shot (need to practise), ably supported by the “which torch” thread…..

Certainly seems bright enough!

This did get a good pulse of super bright white light….

[dom9]

I think you have damaged my retinas with that lume shot - wow!

One thing... worth getting a new pearl (or insert) so you have the matching lume there?

Is it the standard minute hand?

Interesting about the tritium "T" being painted on - would be interested to know who did that work and if they do dial resto!

Lovely to see something different - need to post it on The Rolex Forum modified watches thread I posted!

[996Type]

Thanks!

Asked for a new pip - guess what - none standard size like everything else on the watch so no go!

The minute hand is after market, part of one of the broad sword kits we bought.

I daren’t post in the Rolex thread but thanks for the suggestion!!

[Hoofy]

Love it. The thing that puts me off Subs is the hands. I really dislike the circle at the end of the hour hand!

[dom9]

Hoofy said:

Love it. The thing that puts me off Subs is the hands. I really dislike the circle at the end of the hour hand!

Merc hater

[dom9]

996Type said:

Thanks!

Asked for a new pip - guess what - none standard size like everything else on the watch so no go!

The minute hand is after market, part of one of the broad sword kits we bought.

I daren’t post in the Rolex thread but thanks for the suggestion!!

Loads of genuine 14060 inserts available on ebay to use or steal the pearl off, if you can get the sellers to post a lume shot and pick the one that matches best! Prices don't look great at the moment though.

I am certain I could get you a brand new, Rolex blister-pack 14060 insert - that would have the right/good lume. Guess it would probably cost ~£250, so not cheap for something that probably costs Rolex £1. But much cheaper than going to St James and them offering to put your watch back to standard and supply the insert Also makes the ebay prices look silly, albeit I didn't search hard.

I am not too sure what 'non standard' means in some of these contexts. I think the aftermarket covers the 16610 very well, so that is considered 'standard'. The 14060 is (very subtly) different in dimensions and not really replicated, so I guess there are plenty of 'standard' (16610) parts that don't fit a non-standard (14060) model?

The TRF thread is specifically for modified watches and there are a couple of Milsub mods in there, so you would be right at home. Thread went quite quiet though the last few years, when the 6-digit jewellery watches came in, sadly

PM replied

[Hoofy]

dom9 said:

Hoofy said:

Love it. The thing that puts me off Subs is the hands. I really dislike the circle at the end of the hour hand!

Merc hater

Haha. What's weird is I really like cathedral hands which is like having the Sub hour hand squished a bit.