Accuracy of an automatic?
Discussion
Freddie von Rost said:
Wadeski said:
A chronograph means it has little sub-dials on the face, and is not a certificate accuracy like a chronometer
Not quite. I think you will find that the term Chronometer is applied by COSC [Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres], the Official Swiss Chronometer Testing Institute, who certify the accuracy and precision of wristwatches. Only watches certified by the COSC may use the word Chronometer.Edited by Wadeski on Friday 11th January 09:23
So when you said:
Freddie von Rost said:
it is only rated as a chronograph rather than a chronometer.
Doesn't really make sense: watches aren't rated as chronographs - they either have chronograph functionality or they don't.Of course a chronograph may also be a chronometer if it meets the COSC specs.
cerbfan said:
I was told that IWC watches are not COSC rated as they believe they build there watches to a higner accuracy standard than that and therefore do not bother with the certification. Is this true?
It may well be - quite a few higher end makers do not bother with COSC certification, e.g. JLC who feel their "1000 hours" testing is more rigorous than the COSC tests.Also COSC certification applies to movements not watches. That is to say the movement is tested and [bi]only then[/i] put in a watch case. JLC's testing and certification is of the complete watch.
Apologies for bringing this thread back to life but I have an issue with the accuracy of my recently acquired Christopher Ward C60 Trident 600. Yes, I know some consider CW to be the DFS of the watch world but at the price point it suited me as my first automatic watch.
I have had it about 3 weeks now and I reckon it's gaining 2 mins (ish) in 3 days. That to me is unacceptable. Any thoughts from those more experienced / knowledgeable than me. I'm used to the accuracy of my Quartz Breitling or another CW, and this is a bit of a shock, even though I do like the style of the watch.
Is it within acceptable limits or should I send it back to be adjusted?
Thanks.
I have had it about 3 weeks now and I reckon it's gaining 2 mins (ish) in 3 days. That to me is unacceptable. Any thoughts from those more experienced / knowledgeable than me. I'm used to the accuracy of my Quartz Breitling or another CW, and this is a bit of a shock, even though I do like the style of the watch.
Is it within acceptable limits or should I send it back to be adjusted?
Thanks.
If you've read the rest of the thread, you'll know that some inaccuracies are OK in a non-COSC automatic. And the price difference between a CW COSC and the non-COSC is quite high.
Best bet is to give them a ring, see what they say, and if you aren't happy, use the 60 day return policy.
Best bet is to give them a ring, see what they say, and if you aren't happy, use the 60 day return policy.
I don't know if CW state accuracy expectations/limits for their non-COSC watches however approx 40sec per day is poor, and I'd be surprised if CW don't agree.
Give them a polite nudge and see what they come back with, as has been said you have their 60 day returns policy to fall back on if it turns sour.
Give them a polite nudge and see what they come back with, as has been said you have their 60 day returns policy to fall back on if it turns sour.
I have read the rest of the thread. Thanks, all. I will see what CW say. I certainly think that 40 secs a day is unacceptable but I had nothing to compare it with. I was keen to have an automatic but I Can't remember the last time I adjusted the time due to inaccuracy in my Breitling, other CW, Seiko, or even my Casio. All Quartz.
We shall see.
We shall see.
andy97 said:
I have read the rest of the thread. Thanks, all. I will see what CW say. I certainly think that 40 secs a day is unacceptable but I had nothing to compare it with. I was keen to have an automatic but I Can't remember the last time I adjusted the time due to inaccuracy in my Breitling, other CW, Seiko, or even my Casio. All Quartz.
We shall see.
I thought COSC(?) was +-6 seconds per day We shall see.
Edited by thebraketester on Monday 20th February 21:29
If it's a cheapy auto and runs consistently fast, it is worth unscrewing the back and having a go at adjusting it yourself. You should see the adjuster with + and - situated over the oscillating hairspring. The trick is to make the tiniest adjustment you can, using a small screwdriver or similar. Be very careful not to touch the balance wheel.
Then screw the the back on finger tight and wear the watch to see how it performs over the course of a few days. Also, leave the watch unworn for a while to see whether it gains or loses time. Repeat the adjustment as necessary.
It took me about 20 sessions of messing with my Seiko - sad, I know - but it is now spot on (gains or loses a second or two a day depending on whether it's worn or not). Good luck!
Then screw the the back on finger tight and wear the watch to see how it performs over the course of a few days. Also, leave the watch unworn for a while to see whether it gains or loses time. Repeat the adjustment as necessary.
It took me about 20 sessions of messing with my Seiko - sad, I know - but it is now spot on (gains or loses a second or two a day depending on whether it's worn or not). Good luck!
Edited by FarmyardPants on Monday 20th February 21:31
andy97 said:
Apologies for bringing this thread back to life but I have an issue with the accuracy of my recently acquired Christopher Ward C60 Trident 600. Yes, I know some consider CW to be the DFS of the watch world but at the price point it suited me as my first automatic watch.
I have had it about 3 weeks now and I reckon it's gaining 2 mins (ish) in 3 days. That to me is unacceptable.
Is it within acceptable limits or should I send it back to be adjusted?
Nothing wrong with the Trident - solid, good-looking & pretty much exactly the same build materials, quality & movement as a Tag Heuer Aquaracer, but at a third of the price.I have had it about 3 weeks now and I reckon it's gaining 2 mins (ish) in 3 days. That to me is unacceptable.
Is it within acceptable limits or should I send it back to be adjusted?
Uses an ETA 2824-2 or Sellita SW200 movement (both virtually identical) which are excellent, robust, proven & capable of great accuracy when regulated correctly. The mid-tier Elabore version which CW uses is meant to perform at an average of +/- 20 secs daily 'off the shelf', but at that price level, CW don't hand regulate them, they just drop the movement in the case (fair enough, to regulate each & every one would add cost). There's a lot that can happen during casing of the movement & shipment to the buyer.
+40 secs a day is too poor, though. CW will regulate it at no charge to a better standard under their excellent 60:60 warranty, but you will be without it for a month or so. If you've still got the stickers, tags etc. attached (doubtful) and it's in unworn condition, you can return for a no-quibble refund within 60 days. E-mail them and see what their current backlog is.
Any competent watch-maker can do the same for you, over a day or two, but anyone other than CW opening the case back will void the warranty. If you don't know what you're doing, I wouldn't try it yourself - without correct tools you'll butcher the case-back removal. The regulating lever only needs moved the most minute amount - if you can see visible movement, that's too much. If you slip & touch the hairspring, you're f@cked. Also, CW doing it will ensure your water-resistance is warrantied - last thing you want is to shear or crimp the gasket.
There are some (limited) things you can try to better the daily rate a little - keeping a full wind (turn the crown an initial 30-40 times to full wind and make sure you're wearing it enough thereafter to keep a full reserve), and then check after a few days, as a watch with poor isochronism will be all over the place. Or try experimenting with overnight positioning (crown-up, dial-down etc.) to manipulate timing.
To be honest though, none of that will buy you more than a few secs daily though, so I'd send it back. A total pain, but they'll look after you.
thebraketester said:
I thought COSC(?) was +-6 seconds per day
The watch that andy97 is referring to isn't sold as a chronometer therefore it can't be expected to run within COSC tolerances, though some non-chronometer watches do run very well. From memory in order to gain COSC certification a movement, prior to being cased, must run between -4 to +6 per day over a 15 day period in a number of position and temperature combinations Edited by thebraketester on Monday 20th February 21:29
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