Replica Watches
Discussion
On reading what I've written, I see it's a bit disjointed.... but 'er indoors is in hospital with, 'womens trouble' so I've typed this whilst opening the can and slaving over the microwave all on my own
I would imagine `er indoors troubles are mainly caused by living with a t
t like you, reading your post mate I would exspect suicide to be her next move.....
I would imagine `er indoors troubles are mainly caused by living with a t
t like you, reading your post mate I would exspect suicide to be her next move.....marc.l said:
On reading what I've written, I see it's a bit disjointed.... but 'er indoors is in hospital with, 'womens trouble' so I've typed this whilst opening the can and slaving over the microwave all on my own
I would imagine `er indoors troubles are mainly caused by living with a tt like you, reading your post mate I would exspect suicide to be her next move.....
And your point is what exactly?I would imagine `er indoors troubles are mainly caused by living with a t
t like you, reading your post mate I would exspect suicide to be her next move.....Shuvi said:
Pistonheads is full of folks that are more concerned about the percieved status of a watch than any intrinsic value it might have.
Except a very few manufacturers, ALL, high end watches are produced by groups such as Richemont, LVH and Swatch. Patek, for instance, are now a mere subsiduary, and in the cheapest of their range use ETA.
A couple of brands stand out as real, some, folks would reject them as worthless. Maurice Lacroix, for instance, a 40 year old company that has/does use quartz and ETA movments at the lower price points, but innovates and is one of the few companies pushing the art of the watchmaker forward, Memior anyone?
Rolex is often derided here, but how many folks post, telling us they've put their name down for a Daytona? You can buy a Daytona at any Rolex dealer today, just not a stainless steel one, because every wanabee has his fecking name down for an SS. I bought a beautiful gold and croc' for virtually the same price as you'd pay to buy a Daytona someone has waited for, for years then sold to a tw@t. But a Rolex is a quality product with a history.
Rolex and the jeweller Cartier, kind of, between them, invented the modern wristwatch. Here, Cartier is considered a bling, overpriced, knownothing fools brand?
Panerai has to be the biggest con ever staged, a genuine Panerai is exactly the same as a decent £90 fake, EXACTLY the same. Panerai has NO history, Panerai made a few crappy watches for the Italian navy years ago... so what?
Seiko make the best watches in the world. What stops them getting the respect they deserve, is that you can buy a Seiko for £10. Rotary make the best Swiss watches in the world. What stops them getting the respct they deserve, is you can buy one for £60.
So why is PH full of fake watch experts?
Because PH is full of Daily Mail reading, right wingers that want to BE SEEN as something else.
On reading what I've written, I see it's a bit disjointed.... but 'er indoors is in hospital with, 'womens trouble' so I've typed this whilst opening the can and slaving over the microwave all on my own
So should we all be wearing a Seiko, living in a cave, driving a Corsa, wearing flip-flops, perely because they all do what they are supposed to and are cheap?Except a very few manufacturers, ALL, high end watches are produced by groups such as Richemont, LVH and Swatch. Patek, for instance, are now a mere subsiduary, and in the cheapest of their range use ETA.
A couple of brands stand out as real, some, folks would reject them as worthless. Maurice Lacroix, for instance, a 40 year old company that has/does use quartz and ETA movments at the lower price points, but innovates and is one of the few companies pushing the art of the watchmaker forward, Memior anyone?
Rolex is often derided here, but how many folks post, telling us they've put their name down for a Daytona? You can buy a Daytona at any Rolex dealer today, just not a stainless steel one, because every wanabee has his fecking name down for an SS. I bought a beautiful gold and croc' for virtually the same price as you'd pay to buy a Daytona someone has waited for, for years then sold to a tw@t. But a Rolex is a quality product with a history.
Rolex and the jeweller Cartier, kind of, between them, invented the modern wristwatch. Here, Cartier is considered a bling, overpriced, knownothing fools brand?
Panerai has to be the biggest con ever staged, a genuine Panerai is exactly the same as a decent £90 fake, EXACTLY the same. Panerai has NO history, Panerai made a few crappy watches for the Italian navy years ago... so what?
Seiko make the best watches in the world. What stops them getting the respect they deserve, is that you can buy a Seiko for £10. Rotary make the best Swiss watches in the world. What stops them getting the respct they deserve, is you can buy one for £60.
So why is PH full of fake watch experts?
Because PH is full of Daily Mail reading, right wingers that want to BE SEEN as something else.
On reading what I've written, I see it's a bit disjointed.... but 'er indoors is in hospital with, 'womens trouble' so I've typed this whilst opening the can and slaving over the microwave all on my own
People buy what they buy because they have the choice and the freedom to buy what they want, if they want a Porsche they will buy one, if they want a 5 bed detached house they will buy one. We all know that a cave will serve the same perpose as a 5 bedroomed house, however one will be a little more comfortable than the other.
Its called freedom of choice and theres not a lot that can be done about that.
So tell us, what "womans trouble" is she in hospital for, im intrigued?
phumy said:
Shuvi said:
Pistonheads is full of folks that are more concerned about the percieved status of a watch than any intrinsic value it might have.
Except a very few manufacturers, ALL, high end watches are produced by groups such as Richemont, LVH and Swatch. Patek, for instance, are now a mere subsiduary, and in the cheapest of their range use ETA.
A couple of brands stand out as real, some, folks would reject them as worthless. Maurice Lacroix, for instance, a 40 year old company that has/does use quartz and ETA movments at the lower price points, but innovates and is one of the few companies pushing the art of the watchmaker forward, Memior anyone?
Rolex is often derided here, but how many folks post, telling us they've put their name down for a Daytona? You can buy a Daytona at any Rolex dealer today, just not a stainless steel one, because every wanabee has his fecking name down for an SS. I bought a beautiful gold and croc' for virtually the same price as you'd pay to buy a Daytona someone has waited for, for years then sold to a tw@t. But a Rolex is a quality product with a history.
Rolex and the jeweller Cartier, kind of, between them, invented the modern wristwatch. Here, Cartier is considered a bling, overpriced, knownothing fools brand?
Panerai has to be the biggest con ever staged, a genuine Panerai is exactly the same as a decent £90 fake, EXACTLY the same. Panerai has NO history, Panerai made a few crappy watches for the Italian navy years ago... so what?
Seiko make the best watches in the world. What stops them getting the respect they deserve, is that you can buy a Seiko for £10. Rotary make the best Swiss watches in the world. What stops them getting the respct they deserve, is you can buy one for £60.
So why is PH full of fake watch experts?
Because PH is full of Daily Mail reading, right wingers that want to BE SEEN as something else.
On reading what I've written, I see it's a bit disjointed.... but 'er indoors is in hospital with, 'womens trouble' so I've typed this whilst opening the can and slaving over the microwave all on my own
So should we all be wearing a Seiko, living in a cave, driving a Corsa, wearing flip-flops, perely because they all do what they are supposed to and are cheap?Except a very few manufacturers, ALL, high end watches are produced by groups such as Richemont, LVH and Swatch. Patek, for instance, are now a mere subsiduary, and in the cheapest of their range use ETA.
A couple of brands stand out as real, some, folks would reject them as worthless. Maurice Lacroix, for instance, a 40 year old company that has/does use quartz and ETA movments at the lower price points, but innovates and is one of the few companies pushing the art of the watchmaker forward, Memior anyone?
Rolex is often derided here, but how many folks post, telling us they've put their name down for a Daytona? You can buy a Daytona at any Rolex dealer today, just not a stainless steel one, because every wanabee has his fecking name down for an SS. I bought a beautiful gold and croc' for virtually the same price as you'd pay to buy a Daytona someone has waited for, for years then sold to a tw@t. But a Rolex is a quality product with a history.
Rolex and the jeweller Cartier, kind of, between them, invented the modern wristwatch. Here, Cartier is considered a bling, overpriced, knownothing fools brand?
Panerai has to be the biggest con ever staged, a genuine Panerai is exactly the same as a decent £90 fake, EXACTLY the same. Panerai has NO history, Panerai made a few crappy watches for the Italian navy years ago... so what?
Seiko make the best watches in the world. What stops them getting the respect they deserve, is that you can buy a Seiko for £10. Rotary make the best Swiss watches in the world. What stops them getting the respct they deserve, is you can buy one for £60.
So why is PH full of fake watch experts?
Because PH is full of Daily Mail reading, right wingers that want to BE SEEN as something else.
On reading what I've written, I see it's a bit disjointed.... but 'er indoors is in hospital with, 'womens trouble' so I've typed this whilst opening the can and slaving over the microwave all on my own
People buy what they buy because they have the choice and the freedom to buy what they want, if they want a Porsche they will buy one, if they want a 5 bed detached house they will buy one. We all know that a cave will serve the same perpose as a 5 bedroomed house, however one will be a little more comfortable than the other.
Its called freedom of choice and theres not a lot that can be done about that.
So tell us, what "womans trouble" is she in hospital for, im intrigued?
gging off that, that THEY perceive, as naff. They appear more concerned with what others will think than with the worth of the watch.Then almost everyone that posts in the watch section comes out as a fecking expert in fakes.
Pomposity, access to fakes, others perception, wanting to appear wealthy while struggling to pay the bills, wanting to be Scott Alexander...
All of the above lead me to believe that PH is full of folks that buy fake watches and pass them off as the real thing.
BTW, I have seen more than one fake posted here on, 'look at me' threads.
So...
Edited by Shuvi on Tuesday 5th August 00:38
GC8 said:
He does make some good point: whether he is a tt or not. Panerai have no history and FM make tasteless gauche overpriced tat for people with money but little taste.
Tasteless or not, FM do make some pretty impressive complications. The fact that the ultra-complicated watches are so big that they'd only fit on the arms of a bear... well Russian oligarchs are fairly large, in general...t or not. Panerai have no history and FM make tasteless gauche overpriced tat for people with money but little taste.
There's an interesting thread here http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... about replica, recreation and fake cars.
Not knowing a thing about the fake/replica watch market. What's your opinions on the various definitions attached to these words - i.e.
Not knowing a thing about the fake/replica watch market. What's your opinions on the various definitions attached to these words - i.e.
lowdrag said:
Here's an interesting observation. I was reading "The C type Register" by Terry Larson of Mesa Arizona and the JDHT and came across this definition in the appendix:-
Original: Does not really exist, as it calls for a car in perpetual storage, with all components as fitted by the factory....
Genuine: All major components must be original, while minor itemsmight have been identical substitutes, renewed due to normal wear.
Authentic: All repairs have been made with original type spares(reproductions allowed for minor items).
Resurrection: Entity lost, copy created using several major components originating from one car only.
Facsimile: Copy car built by original manufacturers, many years after initial production ceased. (Sanction 2 Zagatos?)
Replica: Copy, possibly with differences under the skin. (My Lynx D type for example)
Fake: By-product of greed, where the result of a reconstruction or a duplicate gradually takes on the identity of an original, genuine or reproduction car, possibly after passing through several owners. The present keeper might be in good faith be absolutely convinced that he owns the genuine article.....
It's interesting to note the differentiation between replica and fake - replicas are recognised as not being 'real' and declared by the owner as being so, while fakes are purely sold to make money. I can't beleive that there are folks out there who are still fooled and think they're buying a very cheap original.....Original: Does not really exist, as it calls for a car in perpetual storage, with all components as fitted by the factory....
Genuine: All major components must be original, while minor itemsmight have been identical substitutes, renewed due to normal wear.
Authentic: All repairs have been made with original type spares(reproductions allowed for minor items).
Resurrection: Entity lost, copy created using several major components originating from one car only.
Facsimile: Copy car built by original manufacturers, many years after initial production ceased. (Sanction 2 Zagatos?)
Replica: Copy, possibly with differences under the skin. (My Lynx D type for example)
Fake: By-product of greed, where the result of a reconstruction or a duplicate gradually takes on the identity of an original, genuine or reproduction car, possibly after passing through several owners. The present keeper might be in good faith be absolutely convinced that he owns the genuine article.....
Shuvi said:
Pistonheads is full of folks that are more concerned about the percieved status of a watch than any intrinsic value it might have.
DING DONG. Thats the whole point.If watches were just about telling the time then the Casio Waveceptor or equivalent atomic receiver is all that anyone would ever need.
Lets face it - watches are purchased for the feel good factor. The accuracy is largely academic - they are jewellery for blokes who may not wear other jewellery.
ultegra said:
Shuvi said:
Pistonheads is full of folks that are more concerned about the percieved status of a watch than any intrinsic value it might have.
DING DONG. Thats the whole point.If watches were just about telling the time then the Casio Waveceptor or equivalent atomic receiver is all that anyone would ever need.
Lets face it - watches are purchased for the feel good factor. The accuracy is largely academic - they are jewellery for blokes who may not wear other jewellery.
That doesn't mean that perceived status is the most important thing, which is what Shuvi is claiming. It certainly may be for some people, but for many the feel-good factor is defined by your own desires, not by what other people think of you. Shuvi's generalisation is false, simple as that. I know people who buy watches to fit in with the herd, people who spend a lot of money on brands nobody has heard of (running against the herd, reverse snobbery) and people who just buy what makes *them* feel good and sod anyone else. Claiming everyone buys watches for the same reason is nonsense, as I'm sure many here will agree (though a hell of a lot of people do, otherwise the replica watch industry wouldn't exist... which I guess is part of his crudely put point).
I'm going to say this incredibly bluntly...
I have never bought a fake because I don't have to. I'm lucky.
Anyway - who gives a st. Life is way too short to worry about it. If the fake of something gives the owner the same feeling of pleasure as the guy that has the real deal then fair enough. I get the whole ethical side of it as well but Rolex aren't going to go out of business because someone bought a knock off for $250 - they couldn't have afforded the original anyway. Perhaps Citizen lost out on a sale for the same value instead.
If someone's value in life is to wear named products for the sake of it and to pretend that it is real, then that is sad - always has been and always will be. But to buy a fake and enjoy it for what it is - then perhaps that's different.
I'm drunk - hic.
I have never bought a fake because I don't have to. I'm lucky.
Anyway - who gives a s
t. Life is way too short to worry about it. If the fake of something gives the owner the same feeling of pleasure as the guy that has the real deal then fair enough. I get the whole ethical side of it as well but Rolex aren't going to go out of business because someone bought a knock off for $250 - they couldn't have afforded the original anyway. Perhaps Citizen lost out on a sale for the same value instead.If someone's value in life is to wear named products for the sake of it and to pretend that it is real, then that is sad - always has been and always will be. But to buy a fake and enjoy it for what it is - then perhaps that's different.
I'm drunk - hic.
Have to admit I am going to have a close look at one of these so called "perfect" copy Rolexes. I fancy the vintage Milsub one as it is a copy of something so rare and special that nobody would expect to see somebody wearing a milsub to do anything.
A mate bought one of those Seiko's of ebay recently that is obviously a chinese fake. From 5 foot away it was one of the most incredibly poorly made things I have ever seen (letters spelling Seiko for example didn't line up). Thing is he could have bought a reasonably decent pulsar or accurist for the same money or spent a bit more and got a real Seiko. So far I am not convinced, I have to see it with my own eyes because so far all the fakes I have seen are vastly worse quality then the watches sold in Argos for 40 quid.
I am an engineer and an obsessive perfectionist so what drives me is an interest in the fine details. I have a genuine Sinn EZM3 for example that IMHO has several engineering/quality weaknesses such as a bezel insert that doesn't exactly line up, no decoupling mechanism on the crown, tricky to engage cut on the end of the crown threads etc. My Doxa 750 which is IMHO otherwise perfectly engineered has a poor fit and finish around the inside of the lugs such that the lugs and the bracelet end pieces don't fit exactly flush like they do on the Sinn. I think many ppl choose to ignore these things if you find a watch you like or just don't notice in the first place or just don't care. What I am saying is that is a nonsense to say that the Swiss (or Germans for that matter) make perfectly engineered watches, if they did many of us interested in the fine details wouldn't be on a constant quest to find that unobtainable perfection.
Don't start me on the massive glaring design flaw on modern tool Rolexes.
I have an open mind on the issues this discussion raises.
A mate bought one of those Seiko's of ebay recently that is obviously a chinese fake. From 5 foot away it was one of the most incredibly poorly made things I have ever seen (letters spelling Seiko for example didn't line up). Thing is he could have bought a reasonably decent pulsar or accurist for the same money or spent a bit more and got a real Seiko. So far I am not convinced, I have to see it with my own eyes because so far all the fakes I have seen are vastly worse quality then the watches sold in Argos for 40 quid.
I am an engineer and an obsessive perfectionist so what drives me is an interest in the fine details. I have a genuine Sinn EZM3 for example that IMHO has several engineering/quality weaknesses such as a bezel insert that doesn't exactly line up, no decoupling mechanism on the crown, tricky to engage cut on the end of the crown threads etc. My Doxa 750 which is IMHO otherwise perfectly engineered has a poor fit and finish around the inside of the lugs such that the lugs and the bracelet end pieces don't fit exactly flush like they do on the Sinn. I think many ppl choose to ignore these things if you find a watch you like or just don't notice in the first place or just don't care. What I am saying is that is a nonsense to say that the Swiss (or Germans for that matter) make perfectly engineered watches, if they did many of us interested in the fine details wouldn't be on a constant quest to find that unobtainable perfection.
Don't start me on the massive glaring design flaw on modern tool Rolexes.
I have an open mind on the issues this discussion raises.
Shuvi said:
@Cyberface.
You've spent your entire time in this sub-forum telling folks about fakes, cool.
You appear to be proud of this knowledge, cool.
You're a tw................
..............iv'e died of boredom and lack of pomposity.
Did you ever consider that some of us that know about this subject might be on the 'other side of the fence'?You've spent your entire time in this sub-forum telling folks about fakes, cool.
You appear to be proud of this knowledge, cool.
You're a tw................
..............iv'e died of boredom and lack of pomposity.
I shall also be viewing the Sea Dweller once again in Vietnam, with a view to buy (2) as they are so good the opportunity just can not be turned down. I have looked at them already, as commented on a different thread, they were exceptionally good copies.
I shall be using them for my own purposes and not passing them on to anyone else, therefore i really dont care what anyone else think about it.
I will eventually get my original SD when i come through Heathrow departures in October, when i do i shall post some pictures here for all to peruse and all the "experts" can then tell me which one is which.
I shall be using them for my own purposes and not passing them on to anyone else, therefore i really dont care what anyone else think about it.
I will eventually get my original SD when i come through Heathrow departures in October, when i do i shall post some pictures here for all to peruse and all the "experts" can then tell me which one is which.
phumy said:
I shall also be viewing the Sea Dweller once again in Vietnam, with a view to buy (2) as they are so good the opportunity just can not be turned down. I have looked at them already, as commented on a different thread, they were exceptionally good copies.
I shall be using them for my own purposes and not passing them on to anyone else, therefore i really dont care what anyone else think about it.
I will eventually get my original SD when i come through Heathrow departures in October, when i do i shall post some pictures here for all to peruse and all the "experts" can then tell me which one is which.
Ohhhh - I like a challenge like that - especially if they're good copies.I shall be using them for my own purposes and not passing them on to anyone else, therefore i really dont care what anyone else think about it.
I will eventually get my original SD when i come through Heathrow departures in October, when i do i shall post some pictures here for all to peruse and all the "experts" can then tell me which one is which.
It was actually fakes that got me into the real thing. I've always loved watches but just couldn't justify spending so much money on one I really liked so carried on with my Casio until late 2006 when I went to China on holiday. We ended up in HK and I decided to get myself a couple of £20 fakes for a laugh because it seemed like the thing to do and started wearing my Faulex Gaytona when I got back to the UK. Thing is, wearing something shiny, metal and substantial was a nice feeling and I suddenly realised that I wanted something nice and real on my wrist. That's when I bought my first ever 'proper' watch, my TAG Indy 500, and have never looked back.
Asterix said:
phumy said:
I shall also be viewing the Sea Dweller once again in Vietnam, with a view to buy (2) as they are so good the opportunity just can not be turned down. I have looked at them already, as commented on a different thread, they were exceptionally good copies.
I shall be using them for my own purposes and not passing them on to anyone else, therefore i really dont care what anyone else think about it.
I will eventually get my original SD when i come through Heathrow departures in October, when i do i shall post some pictures here for all to peruse and all the "experts" can then tell me which one is which.
Ohhhh - I like a challenge like that - especially if they're good copies.I shall be using them for my own purposes and not passing them on to anyone else, therefore i really dont care what anyone else think about it.
I will eventually get my original SD when i come through Heathrow departures in October, when i do i shall post some pictures here for all to peruse and all the "experts" can then tell me which one is which.
so no challenge thereHowever, if the photos are taken such that the silly laser-cut crown at 6 isn't glaringly visible on the rep, then you'll have fun spotting the difference!!! (there are loads of threads on t'internet with side-by-side comparisons at all angles, and it can be quite tricky to tell the difference sometimes...)
yes just try a lume shot after several hours or try and dive to 100m with the thing then the difference is obvious. Oh wait a minute Rolex are not known for killer lume and the latest 1:1 SD copy is tested to 10 atm.
Seems the chinese are not just going for looks they are trying to get the engineering right as well. They claim things like the same dimensions on the sapphire crystal, same feel and action on the ratcheting bezel and AR coatings on some models. Eventually (probably very soon) these watches will for all intense purposes do everything and function just as well as the real thing. This I respect much more then just making a look-a-like, although I still wish they would write something different on the dial (like Sandoz for example).
Had a look at the milsub tonight, man that does look nice and at $220 is looks a great basis for a milsub homage.
Seems the chinese are not just going for looks they are trying to get the engineering right as well. They claim things like the same dimensions on the sapphire crystal, same feel and action on the ratcheting bezel and AR coatings on some models. Eventually (probably very soon) these watches will for all intense purposes do everything and function just as well as the real thing. This I respect much more then just making a look-a-like, although I still wish they would write something different on the dial (like Sandoz for example).
Had a look at the milsub tonight, man that does look nice and at $220 is looks a great basis for a milsub homage.
NJH said:
Seems the chinese are not just going for looks they are trying to get the engineering right as well. They claim things like the same dimensions on the sapphire crystal, same feel and action on the ratcheting bezel and AR coatings on some models. Eventually (probably very soon) these watches will for all intense purposes do everything and function just as well as the real thing. This I respect much more then just making a look-a-like, although I still wish they would write something different on the dial (like Sandoz for example).
I seem to remember reading a post on here a couple of weeks ago (can't find it now) saying that it's possible to pick up a Breitling replica (c'mon, it's a fking fake, stop kidding yourselfs) which is so accurate even Breitling themselfs can't tell them apart except for serial numbers.... or am I making this up? You wont be making it up, youll have seen a post by one of the many 'quality replica' self-delusionists. When you open it up youll either find a base grade Swiss ETA movement (little chance and if so then it will definately be the base grade of five) or a Chinese copy of an ETA movement (far more likely). The notion that it will be fitted with a genuine top grade Swiss ETA ebauche thats so impeccably finished that no one can tell, is nonsense.
NJH said:
yes just try a lume shot after several hours or try and dive to 100m with the thing then the difference is obvious. Oh wait a minute Rolex are not known for killer lume and the latest 1:1 SD copy is tested to 10 atm.
Seems the chinese are not just going for looks they are trying to get the engineering right as well. They claim things like the same dimensions on the sapphire crystal, same feel and action on the ratcheting bezel and AR coatings on some models. Eventually (probably very soon) these watches will for all intense purposes do everything and function just as well as the real thing. This I respect much more then just making a look-a-like, although I still wish they would write something different on the dial (like Sandoz for example).
Had a look at the milsub tonight, man that does look nice and at $220 is looks a great basis for a milsub homage.
Erm......how can I put it.Seems the chinese are not just going for looks they are trying to get the engineering right as well. They claim things like the same dimensions on the sapphire crystal, same feel and action on the ratcheting bezel and AR coatings on some models. Eventually (probably very soon) these watches will for all intense purposes do everything and function just as well as the real thing. This I respect much more then just making a look-a-like, although I still wish they would write something different on the dial (like Sandoz for example).
Had a look at the milsub tonight, man that does look nice and at $220 is looks a great basis for a milsub homage.
The lume on a rep will stop working after 1/2 hour. These chinese rep factories don't use superluminova- it's too expensive.
As for the idea that the factories QC every 'super' Seadweller they produce down to 100m, that's totally impossible.
The truth lies somewhere between what the sceptics and the fake supporters suggest. It also lies with the fact that people buying fakes are supporting gangsters and organised crime.
Guess some people don't have any compunctions about that. Most likely the same people who buy illegal drugs, drive without insurance, buy stolen goods, cheat on their wives etc etc.
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