Discussion
ascayman said:
£50 for a real good pen isnt really a great deal its worth saving the extra for a pen you will keep all you life imho.
Until you lose it.Si 330 said:
I have a Cross it cost around 90 pounds 10 years ago.
Yep I had a Cross as a leaving present .... lost it I just buy Parker Jotters in packs of 10 off ebay. Lookes a little better than a bic and does the same job.
I had an absolutely beautiful solid gold Parker, given to me when my great grandfather died as he knew I liked them. Got nicked from my bag at school while I was playing football.
True, I shouldn't have taken it to school in the first place, but it was a posh one and stuff like that never happened.
Now I have myself a vintage Parker 25, and I love it. I think I'm the only person in my office of 40 or so who uses a fountain pen, but the secretary still orders me 5 royal blue cartridges every month...
True, I shouldn't have taken it to school in the first place, but it was a posh one and stuff like that never happened.
Now I have myself a vintage Parker 25, and I love it. I think I'm the only person in my office of 40 or so who uses a fountain pen, but the secretary still orders me 5 royal blue cartridges every month...
A nice old MYU 701 in brown ink for me.
http://www.stutler.cc/pens/murex/index.html
http://www.stutler.cc/pens/murex/index.html
Edited by andy_s on Friday 2nd October 21:51
Cotty said:
ascayman said:
£50 for a real good pen isnt really a great deal its worth saving the extra for a pen you will keep all you life imho.
Until you lose it.He was shown "cheaper, less obtrusive options" but refused them.
He was back two weeks later for another as his son had "lost it".
I must admit to not being a 'pen person' as my handwriting is appalling and I never found it easier with a fountain pen either. I did a professional exam a few months ago and ended up writing around 8 pages in 3 hours - how the examiner understood what I was on about I have no idea (passed though, which is all that matters).
Now, as appears to be the 'done thing' since all my friends have the damn things and, it appears, a goodly bunch of the Watch forum crowd here, I have a Montblanc pen. It's a stubby Bohème roller ball and does the job - the roller ball is obviously of finer quality than a random Bic and writes more smoothly, but it's not 3500 times better. I bought my other half a special one with a heart shaped ruby on the clip but she bunged it away somewhere so I had to buy her another one, sadly the first one was a special edition and couldn't be had again. She was pretty miserable about that.
And that's how I see Montblanc pens really, just jewellery. Fine materials, precious metals, stones, whathaveyou. But in terms of technical functionality, a terribly-fine-tolerance engineered pen (most likely for engineers and architects, technical drawings etc.) would be *better* as a pen than the Montblanc at a lower price.
Of course price isn't everything and when using a tool or instrument of any sort, it's a privilege to be able to choose and use a finer tool / instrument that is a pleasure to use, whether technically superior or just aesthetically beautiful. And there's the smug charidee-thing that Montblanc are offering at the moment.
Now I'm sure I'll immediately get jumped on for being a heathen, an uneducated pauper, 'only went to a minor public school' and ill bred, yadda yadda, but I'm acutely aware that my long-term experience with 'luxury' pens has been solely with nice rollerballs, primarily because I find them easier to write with. And the pen cognoscenti will only consider a fountain pen, with a nib crafted from precious metal, and free-flowing ink.
However, whilst doing a bit of research around the topic so not as to be accidentally buying the Louis Vuitton of pens (apologies to LV fans out there, but I find their heavily-branded items gauche in the extreme), it turns out that the pen ultras - similar in intensity to some of the watch geeks where the movement is everything :blush: (ahem) - don't rate Montblanc but consider them the almost default choice for a random luxury gift. And it is true - they have a nice little shop on the corner of the Royal Exchange where I've indulged my girlfriend's near-addiction to handbags (lovely leather, appalling design that failed within a few weeks, replaced with a different design, failed again... she's now spending a fortune on osteopathy and acupuncture to deal with the knackered shoulder she suffers from carting around heavy Mulberry bags... I just don't understand it), bought little gifts like keyrings, wallets, and of course, pens. And in return the Mistress Rebecca has supplied me with a pen (which I *haven't* lost) and a fine wallet which is still in excellent shape after getting on for 10 years.
The pen geeks point to brands (marques? Surely outside the big names, the really special pens are not just another 'brand' for a luxury 'brand' marketing company like LVMH?) such as Pelikan, Sailor, Conway Stewart, Lamy (of which I'd only heard of Lamy) - with well-known Parker and Sheaffer getting good reviews as well.
So why the love for Montblanc here? I know it's not a pen forum, but the variety of esoteric manufacture watches owned by this crowd shows true enthusiasm for horology - it's not as if everyone drools over Rolex (in fact, quite the opposite, even though they make decent tool watches). I work in the City and Montblanc pens are bloody ubiquitous (and yeah, I have one, a gift). Or am I mistaking rarity, and the snob-value of owning some make that nobody outside of pen geekdom would have heard of, for actual real performance? Are Montblanc actually top of the line and for very good reason?
I somewhat suspect that, unlike watches, there is a limit to complexity with fountain pens and once you get the nib made to your preferred specifications out of your preferred material (presumably for longevity some gold alloy is preferred - though high-purity gold would surely wear out over time?), that's perfection in pens. And since a small gold nib can't cost much nor be that difficult to manufacture, the rest of the experience *is* about luxury, aesthetics, rarity and exclusivity?
Just a bit of a random train of thought... whereas a plain looking watch could contain a majestic movement that very few manufactures could feasibly build to last pretty much indefinitely, the pen is mostly about the nib. The rest is luxury, status and 'bling' - with Montblanc getting the most brand recognition amongst non-pengeeks, no?
Since I don't get on with fountain pens enough to try out the 'expert's' pens suggested by the pen geek forums, I prefer to use a rollerball. And again, once you get a particular quality of engineering tolerance, the rest is all ergonomics, luxury and status. I stick with my stubby little Montblanc because Miss B bought it for me, and I do actually like the design. However if I was buying my own right now, I'd almost certainly be tempted by one of the Porsche Design pens in some fancy technical material... and to hell with what that says about me
So at the end of this essay I'm not sure that 'fine fountain pens' and watches have much in common - and whilst sharing an appreciation for finer tools / instruments is a given, plenty of watch geeks don't get off on fancy fountain pens. I'd hazard a guess that the contributors here who love watches but pooh-poohed the idea of a 'fine fountain pen' also place more value in a watch's mechanical movement than its prestige, but it'd be interesting to see whether I'm right or wrong
Now, as appears to be the 'done thing' since all my friends have the damn things and, it appears, a goodly bunch of the Watch forum crowd here, I have a Montblanc pen. It's a stubby Bohème roller ball and does the job - the roller ball is obviously of finer quality than a random Bic and writes more smoothly, but it's not 3500 times better. I bought my other half a special one with a heart shaped ruby on the clip but she bunged it away somewhere so I had to buy her another one, sadly the first one was a special edition and couldn't be had again. She was pretty miserable about that.
And that's how I see Montblanc pens really, just jewellery. Fine materials, precious metals, stones, whathaveyou. But in terms of technical functionality, a terribly-fine-tolerance engineered pen (most likely for engineers and architects, technical drawings etc.) would be *better* as a pen than the Montblanc at a lower price.
Of course price isn't everything and when using a tool or instrument of any sort, it's a privilege to be able to choose and use a finer tool / instrument that is a pleasure to use, whether technically superior or just aesthetically beautiful. And there's the smug charidee-thing that Montblanc are offering at the moment.
Now I'm sure I'll immediately get jumped on for being a heathen, an uneducated pauper, 'only went to a minor public school' and ill bred, yadda yadda, but I'm acutely aware that my long-term experience with 'luxury' pens has been solely with nice rollerballs, primarily because I find them easier to write with. And the pen cognoscenti will only consider a fountain pen, with a nib crafted from precious metal, and free-flowing ink.
However, whilst doing a bit of research around the topic so not as to be accidentally buying the Louis Vuitton of pens (apologies to LV fans out there, but I find their heavily-branded items gauche in the extreme), it turns out that the pen ultras - similar in intensity to some of the watch geeks where the movement is everything :blush: (ahem) - don't rate Montblanc but consider them the almost default choice for a random luxury gift. And it is true - they have a nice little shop on the corner of the Royal Exchange where I've indulged my girlfriend's near-addiction to handbags (lovely leather, appalling design that failed within a few weeks, replaced with a different design, failed again... she's now spending a fortune on osteopathy and acupuncture to deal with the knackered shoulder she suffers from carting around heavy Mulberry bags... I just don't understand it), bought little gifts like keyrings, wallets, and of course, pens. And in return the Mistress Rebecca has supplied me with a pen (which I *haven't* lost) and a fine wallet which is still in excellent shape after getting on for 10 years.
The pen geeks point to brands (marques? Surely outside the big names, the really special pens are not just another 'brand' for a luxury 'brand' marketing company like LVMH?) such as Pelikan, Sailor, Conway Stewart, Lamy (of which I'd only heard of Lamy) - with well-known Parker and Sheaffer getting good reviews as well.
So why the love for Montblanc here? I know it's not a pen forum, but the variety of esoteric manufacture watches owned by this crowd shows true enthusiasm for horology - it's not as if everyone drools over Rolex (in fact, quite the opposite, even though they make decent tool watches). I work in the City and Montblanc pens are bloody ubiquitous (and yeah, I have one, a gift). Or am I mistaking rarity, and the snob-value of owning some make that nobody outside of pen geekdom would have heard of, for actual real performance? Are Montblanc actually top of the line and for very good reason?
I somewhat suspect that, unlike watches, there is a limit to complexity with fountain pens and once you get the nib made to your preferred specifications out of your preferred material (presumably for longevity some gold alloy is preferred - though high-purity gold would surely wear out over time?), that's perfection in pens. And since a small gold nib can't cost much nor be that difficult to manufacture, the rest of the experience *is* about luxury, aesthetics, rarity and exclusivity?
Just a bit of a random train of thought... whereas a plain looking watch could contain a majestic movement that very few manufactures could feasibly build to last pretty much indefinitely, the pen is mostly about the nib. The rest is luxury, status and 'bling' - with Montblanc getting the most brand recognition amongst non-pengeeks, no?
Since I don't get on with fountain pens enough to try out the 'expert's' pens suggested by the pen geek forums, I prefer to use a rollerball. And again, once you get a particular quality of engineering tolerance, the rest is all ergonomics, luxury and status. I stick with my stubby little Montblanc because Miss B bought it for me, and I do actually like the design. However if I was buying my own right now, I'd almost certainly be tempted by one of the Porsche Design pens in some fancy technical material... and to hell with what that says about me
So at the end of this essay I'm not sure that 'fine fountain pens' and watches have much in common - and whilst sharing an appreciation for finer tools / instruments is a given, plenty of watch geeks don't get off on fancy fountain pens. I'd hazard a guess that the contributors here who love watches but pooh-poohed the idea of a 'fine fountain pen' also place more value in a watch's mechanical movement than its prestige, but it'd be interesting to see whether I'm right or wrong
lightningghost said:
Dragging up an old classic here in case anyone was thinking about buying a new fountain pen. I've just bought a matt black and chrome Waterman Expert II and I can't wait to start using it. It looks beautiful, feels comfortable and writes very smoothly.
It's quite big and thick, but I like that. "The pen is mightier than the sword" they say. They're wrong, but if I'm going to fight with a pen I at least want a bigg'un.
I have that exact same pen, have had it for 4 or 5 years. It's an absolute joy to write with, not flash, not so expensive that you are terrified of losing it.It's quite big and thick, but I like that. "The pen is mightier than the sword" they say. They're wrong, but if I'm going to fight with a pen I at least want a bigg'un.
Spot on, I use it every day.
cyberface said:
Now, as appears to be the 'done thing' since all my friends have the damn things and, it appears, a goodly bunch of the Watch forum crowd here, I have a Montblanc pen. It's a stubby Bohème roller ball
but I'm acutely aware that my long-term experience with 'luxury' pens has been solely with nice rollerballs, primarily because I find them easier to write with. And the pen cognoscenti will only consider a fountain pen, with a nib crafted from precious metal, and free-flowing ink.
And there's the rub. No matter how good the barrel and cap are, a good rollerball will only ever be as good to write with as a £2 Uniball Jetstream. If you're lucky.but I'm acutely aware that my long-term experience with 'luxury' pens has been solely with nice rollerballs, primarily because I find them easier to write with. And the pen cognoscenti will only consider a fountain pen, with a nib crafted from precious metal, and free-flowing ink.
My father bought me a Parker Duofold International when I graduated, and I still write with it*. The difference, nibwise, between this and even another Parker I own (a Sonnet) is like night and day. It's BMW M3 CSL versus Vauxhall Vectra.
*This is a lie. I have broken the barrel, being a hamfisted buffoon, and need to replace it.
Only just found this thread.
Ten or so years ago my wife bought me an ST Dupont Montparnasse fountain pen. It's made in France and there are a limited number of retail suppliers in the UK. It's got a mottled brown tortoise shell finish, gold fitments etc, and weighs a packet! However, I have used it every day since I've had it as it's a really great writer. One neat trick is it works with cartridges and it can carry a spare in its barrel so there's no need to carry any separately.
It's quite a rare make in the UK, much rarer than, say, Mont Blanc products, and in my view better quality too.
I never use ball points unless I need red, green or some other colour...just doesn't feel right after the real (and frightfully old fashioned) fountain pen.
R.
Ten or so years ago my wife bought me an ST Dupont Montparnasse fountain pen. It's made in France and there are a limited number of retail suppliers in the UK. It's got a mottled brown tortoise shell finish, gold fitments etc, and weighs a packet! However, I have used it every day since I've had it as it's a really great writer. One neat trick is it works with cartridges and it can carry a spare in its barrel so there's no need to carry any separately.
It's quite a rare make in the UK, much rarer than, say, Mont Blanc products, and in my view better quality too.
I never use ball points unless I need red, green or some other colour...just doesn't feel right after the real (and frightfully old fashioned) fountain pen.
R.
The Leaper said:
I never use ball points unless I need red, green or some other colour...just doesn't feel right after the real (and frightfully old fashioned) fountain pen.
R.
I'm the same, and using a fountain pen slows and smooths my handwriting too. Whenever I'm forced to write with a bic now it looks as if I've started to have some sort of grand mal episode mid-sentence.R.
Your pen sounds great - any chance of pictures?
Si 330 said:
Save a little get a Montblanc.
Save a little more and get a Pelikan. I have a Pelikan Chicago, I use it daily for work, I am sad enough to find pleasure just in holding it, the feel of the barrel, the smoothness of the nib etc. It holds lots of ink (the right ink is important in fountain pens, there are reviews online!)
Not exactly cheap, mine was 40th birthday pressie from Mrs Blue.
I now use either a Dunhill Sentryman or my favourite, a carbon fibre Dunhill AD 2000. The balance and the quality of finish are superb, the detail of the carbon fibre lay up is beautiful. You absolutely need a £600 carbon fibre pen in your writing life.....
I've had Montblanc, and by comparison they're crap. The fountain pens leak and the resin (expensive plastic) cases crack & split.
I've had Montblanc, and by comparison they're crap. The fountain pens leak and the resin (expensive plastic) cases crack & split.
Edited by Dominic H on Saturday 3rd October 12:06
I've no idea. I don't think you can beat a Pilot G2 gel ink, about fifteen quid, and I can also appreciate that there may be something special about having an item made by hand by some specific specialist (undoubtedly slightly expensive). There is similarly merit to be seen in something robust or particularly over-engineered. I know that any old pen will do, of course, but I do like the interaction with a fountain pen, choosing what ink to use, filling and cleaning it, using a fountain pen when no one else in the room is. It makes me work harder with my writing because the results are much better, the lines are fatter, more shaped and nothing beats it when flourishing your signature. Or maybe I'm just a good old fashioned 18th century dandy at heart. Whatever, I like them - the best writer being a ten quid Parker - but get your own ink - every gentleman should...
Dominic H said:
I now use either a Dunhill Sentryman or my favourite, a carbon fibre Dunhill AD 2000. The balance and the quality of finish are superb, the detail of the carbon fibre lay up is beautiful. You absolutely need a £600 carbon fibre pen in your writing life.....
I've had Montblanc, and by comparison they're crap. The fountain pens leak and the resin (expensive plastic) cases crack & split.
As I've already pointed out, I don't find fountain pens 'write better' for me.... but I absolutely *love* that carbon fibre Dunhill.... any chance they do a rollerball in that design? Or is that a question that's better off not asked? I've had Montblanc, and by comparison they're crap. The fountain pens leak and the resin (expensive plastic) cases crack & split.
Edited by Dominic H on Saturday 3rd October 12:06
(if they *do* make a rollerball version of that carbon fibre pen then I'm having one!)
PhilLL said:
rhinochopig said:
WTF fountain pens!!!! You're supposed to be petrol heads, you should all be using these...
Quality! I had that exact set (infact still have).I think Rotring do some decent writing pens as well
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