New Flying Scotsman Unveiled
Discussion
Magog said:
Hopefully the NRM will use it to highlight the contribution that the railways and railwaymen made to the war effort.
Good point.My grandfather was on the Southern Railway right through the war, and went from driving regular suburban commuter trains or jolly little South Coast seaside excursions, to hauling the war effort all over the country, or bringing troops and equipment South in the gradual build up to June 6th, enduring the blitz in East end railway depots and spending literally days on end living on the footplate. Needless to say, this was all way before most homes had a telephone so my gran would often be left wondering if he was coming home after a heavy night raid, and at the same time had no way on ever finding out exactly where he was or where he'd been.
It often goes unreported just how heavily targeted the railways were during the war.
Richjam said:
Can somebody explain the time delay in this thread it goes from 2011 with it being almost ready to 2015 and it being almost ready!? It wasn't the MOD running this was it?
I'm slightly confused as well as this report says it's taken ten years to restore http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33584691 and this one from 4 years ago says it's just completed a £1.5M resoration, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13582357 did they f
k that one up.Some reports that make interesting reading on the protracted job here;
http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/nrmdocuments.aspx
The NRM bought something that was in far worse (and frankly scary) condition than they thought and then compounded that with very poor project management, which was combined with changes of management at the museum.
http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/nrmdocuments.aspx
The NRM bought something that was in far worse (and frankly scary) condition than they thought and then compounded that with very poor project management, which was combined with changes of management at the museum.
Red Firecracker said:
Some reports that make interesting reading on the protracted job here;
http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/nrmdocuments.aspx
The NRM bought something that was in far worse (and frankly scary) condition than they thought and then compounded that with very poor project management, which was combined with changes of management at the museum.
I agree it sounds like a right mess. Didn't do due diligence and bought with their hearts not their heads. Which is understandable given she's the Flying Scotsman! http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/nrmdocuments.aspx
The NRM bought something that was in far worse (and frankly scary) condition than they thought and then compounded that with very poor project management, which was combined with changes of management at the museum.
RichB said:
I agree it sounds like a right mess. Didn't do due diligence and bought with their hearts not their heads. Which is understandable given she's the Flying Scotsman!
Well, some of it is (possibly) the Flying Scotsman!I really do think that a top notch cosmetic restoration and retirement in the Great Hall might have been the way forward once it was realised just how bad things were.
Red Firecracker said:
Some reports that make interesting reading on the protracted job here;
http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/nrmdocuments.aspx
The NRM bought something that was in far worse (and frankly scary) condition than they thought and then compounded that with very poor project management, which was combined with changes of management at the museum.
A quick precis of the situation is that after withdrawal from BR service it was run with a higher pressure boiler and bigger cylinders than it was designed for meaning that the frames, wheels and motion were shot due to excess forces. Also maintenance was skimped in an effort to keep it running and earning. Given that it was built in 1923, what they should have done was consign it to the museum as an "original condition" static exhibit like Mallard and build a replica. But the great god of "mainline running" had to be appeased.http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/nrmdocuments.aspx
The NRM bought something that was in far worse (and frankly scary) condition than they thought and then compounded that with very poor project management, which was combined with changes of management at the museum.
The decision was taken after the first "rebuild" by the NRM that it was actually still in very poor condition despite the rebuild. Considering how a steam engine works, first is the ability to make steam, then the ability to use it and the valve gear controls this it is external and valve timing is not only continuously variable but very important so the physically positioning of every component on the frames is the key to success in a steam engine. It also explains the age old "personality" of different engines that are supposed to be the same and why some were better than others. It is under immense strain and harsh working conditions. This is one example and there are many more as to what was actually wrong with it.
After many years of bodging back together scotsman was completely worn out, in basic terms the holes for bolting it back together had ovaled to a degree that nothing lined up properly which makes for an unhappy steam engine. Imagine a stretched timing chain in a car engine or perhaps more appropriately different cam shaft profiles and how that would effect a car engine ability to work properly. (The tip of the ice berg in scotsman place). Also one cylinder was badly cracked, again imagine a cracked block on a car and you can see how the old girl was suffering!
As mentioned before steam engines are not restored once and used again for 50 years, not helped by advancing age most are being continuously worked on and even when new they would not be in service for very long without having to have some work done somewhere, packing bearings, boiler work etc heavy general maintenance is normally every 5 years and lighter maintenance is often carried out between these large overhauls and the boiler will need lifting from the frames every 10 years in order to be inspected thoroughly and repaired where required. (Normally retubing, firebox stays etc)
This is a very interesting read if you want to know further details on what has happened during the NRM's ownership of her.
http://www.webcitation.org/6C4X3YBx3
After many years of bodging back together scotsman was completely worn out, in basic terms the holes for bolting it back together had ovaled to a degree that nothing lined up properly which makes for an unhappy steam engine. Imagine a stretched timing chain in a car engine or perhaps more appropriately different cam shaft profiles and how that would effect a car engine ability to work properly. (The tip of the ice berg in scotsman place). Also one cylinder was badly cracked, again imagine a cracked block on a car and you can see how the old girl was suffering!
As mentioned before steam engines are not restored once and used again for 50 years, not helped by advancing age most are being continuously worked on and even when new they would not be in service for very long without having to have some work done somewhere, packing bearings, boiler work etc heavy general maintenance is normally every 5 years and lighter maintenance is often carried out between these large overhauls and the boiler will need lifting from the frames every 10 years in order to be inspected thoroughly and repaired where required. (Normally retubing, firebox stays etc)
This is a very interesting read if you want to know further details on what has happened during the NRM's ownership of her.
http://www.webcitation.org/6C4X3YBx3
In what way are A1s visually different to A3s?Puts on LNER nerd hat
If by A1 you mean the original clssification that Scotsman ran under then it originally ran with a 180psi boiler and short travel valvesand right hand drive. this can be seen in early pictures where the running plate is level above the cylinders
The valves were later converted to long travel and pre war locos can be noted by a small built up box aboye the valves on the running plate. In 1928 the A3 class was introduced with a 220psi boiler nad subsequently all the A1 were converted to A3 and left hand drive eventually all locos were left hand drive
In 1945 due to the conversion by Thompson of 4470 all remaining A1 were reclassified A10, with 4470 becoming the new A1 class
Now if you are referring to the LNER/BR A1 there are differences externally
First the thompson A1 was reclassified to A1/1
Both the A1 and A1/1 have smoke deflectors of the blinker type and have divided drive, although this cannot be seen from outside ( inside cylinder on front axle, other two on middle axle) The A3 (A1 had all three cylinders driving on the middle axle)
The A1/1 can be distinguished by having the coutside cylinder beteen the front bogies rear wheels and the front driving wheel. The NEW A1 class as well as the A3 class have the outside cylinders sited just to the rear of the cente line of the front bogie. Asthetically a better looking engine.
HTH but ask away if still confused
If by A1 you mean the original clssification that Scotsman ran under then it originally ran with a 180psi boiler and short travel valvesand right hand drive. this can be seen in early pictures where the running plate is level above the cylinders
The valves were later converted to long travel and pre war locos can be noted by a small built up box aboye the valves on the running plate. In 1928 the A3 class was introduced with a 220psi boiler nad subsequently all the A1 were converted to A3 and left hand drive eventually all locos were left hand drive
In 1945 due to the conversion by Thompson of 4470 all remaining A1 were reclassified A10, with 4470 becoming the new A1 class
Now if you are referring to the LNER/BR A1 there are differences externally
First the thompson A1 was reclassified to A1/1
Both the A1 and A1/1 have smoke deflectors of the blinker type and have divided drive, although this cannot be seen from outside ( inside cylinder on front axle, other two on middle axle) The A3 (A1 had all three cylinders driving on the middle axle)
The A1/1 can be distinguished by having the coutside cylinder beteen the front bogies rear wheels and the front driving wheel. The NEW A1 class as well as the A3 class have the outside cylinders sited just to the rear of the cente line of the front bogie. Asthetically a better looking engine.
HTH but ask away if still confused
Ok, I get the general drift. Not being an LNER buff I was confused by Yertis's comment, a bit like me saying I always feel Stars are far more elegant than Castles. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff