Red Arrow crashes.
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
But not in a display, how odd. Almost as if it was a private tribute. Wonder if the pilots decided or whether they were instructed?
Public RAF a/c displays, whether Aerobatic Displays or Role Demos, have to be Authorised at the start of the Display Season. Specifically a Display Pilot or Pilots (and this includes RAFAT) practice their display sequence and work down to their 'Base Height'. Once this is done the Display is signed off (Authorised) by their Command Authority. In the case of Fast Jets this will have been done by the Group AOC (Air Officer Commanding) who will have witnessed the Display in concert with the relevant 'Air Display Panel 'before signing it off.The Reds are no different in this respect - their display (whether Full, Flat, or 8-Ship) will have been authorised by AOC 22 Group (or in earlier days AOC HQPTC, or earlier still AOC HQRAFSC).
Red Lead (OC RAFAT) does NOT have the authority to change the display willy nilly.
Thus, while a 'Flypast' may include a 'Missing Man' (and note the 'Missing Man' is NOT a Formation per se, but a Formation where one a/c pulls up and OUT of the Formation), this will be a Flypast and NOT a full Public Display. Given that a Flypast is not a full display, then OC RAFAT will have the ability to authorise such.
For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Given that we are now in September and towards the end of the 2011 Display Season, I can't see this happening.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Yes, I can see how a decision that you or I could make in 5 seconds would take the MOD a year to make, by which time everyone would have forgotten what it was for. 'Shall we do the...? ' 'Ooh, tricky decision, let's think about it next spring. Mind you these biscuits are nice...'. Simpo Two said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Yes, I can see how a decision that you or I could make in 5 seconds would take the MOD a year to make, by which time everyone would have forgotten what it was for. 'Shall we do the...? ' 'Ooh, tricky decision, let's think about it next spring. Mind you these biscuits are nice...'. Vytalis said:
mybrainhurts said:
They never do Chatsworth on Sunday, only Friday...
They're in the programme for Sunday.http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It was in the programme, and that link said that unfortunately the Sunday display was cancelled, but Friday's would go ahead as scheduled. That page I linked to has now been updated. No mention of Sunday.
dr_gn said:
Vytalis said:
mybrainhurts said:
They never do Chatsworth on Sunday, only Friday...
They're in the programme for Sunday.http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It was in the programme, and that link said that unfortunately the Sunday display was cancelled, but Friday's would go ahead as scheduled. That page I linked to has now been updated. No mention of Sunday.
Simpo Two said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Yes, I can see how a decision that you or I could make in 5 seconds would take the MOD a year to make, by which time everyone would have forgotten what it was for. 'Shall we do the...? ' 'Ooh, tricky decision, let's think about it next spring. Mind you these biscuits are nice...'. The Arrows were due to display again at the Dartmouth Regatta a couple of weeks ago - just a few days after the loss of Flt Lt Egging.
As a form of tribute the two black Hawks did one high speed fairly low level pass up the River Dart on the Thursday of the Regatta.
On the Friday, when the Reds were due to display, people attending the Regatta had been asked to wear something red as a mark of respect.
Many hundreds of people, if not thousands did exactly that.
The Regatta organisers also decided to have a one minute silence a 6pm on the Friday evening.
This happened & the whole town was silent.
You could have heard a pin drop. It was fantastic & the organisers & everyone who was at Dartmouth on Friday deserves to be mentioned.
As a form of tribute the two black Hawks did one high speed fairly low level pass up the River Dart on the Thursday of the Regatta.
On the Friday, when the Reds were due to display, people attending the Regatta had been asked to wear something red as a mark of respect.
Many hundreds of people, if not thousands did exactly that.
The Regatta organisers also decided to have a one minute silence a 6pm on the Friday evening.
This happened & the whole town was silent.
You could have heard a pin drop. It was fantastic & the organisers & everyone who was at Dartmouth on Friday deserves to be mentioned.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Simpo Two said:
But not in a display, how odd. Almost as if it was a private tribute. Wonder if the pilots decided or whether they were instructed?
Public RAF a/c displays, whether Aerobatic Displays or Role Demos, have to be Authorised at the start of the Display Season. Specifically a Display Pilot or Pilots (and this includes RAFAT) practice their display sequence and work down to their 'Base Height'. Once this is done the Display is signed off (Authorised) by their Command Authority. In the case of Fast Jets this will have been done by the Group AOC (Air Officer Commanding) who will have witnessed the Display in concert with the relevant 'Air Display Panel 'before signing it off.The Reds are no different in this respect - their display (whether Full, Flat, or 8-Ship) will have been authorised by AOC 22 Group (or in earlier days AOC HQPTC, or earlier still AOC HQRAFSC).
Red Lead (OC RAFAT) does NOT have the authority to change the display willy nilly.
Thus, while a 'Flypast' may include a 'Missing Man' (and note the 'Missing Man' is NOT a Formation per se, but a Formation where one a/c pulls up and OUT of the Formation), this will be a Flypast and NOT a full Public Display. Given that a Flypast is not a full display, then OC RAFAT will have the ability to authorise such.
For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Given that we are now in September and towards the end of the 2011 Display Season, I can't see this happening.
Don't know if this has already been posted, but It would seem that Jon was due to take part in a charity bike ride.
Link here.
http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fundraiser-web/fun...
virgingiving said:
On 11 Oct 2011, a combined team of 20 cyclists from the Royal Air Force’s Battle of Britain Memorial Flight and Red Arrows Display Team will attempt to cross the UK at its widest point in just 4 days. The route will begin at St. David’s Head in Wales and finish in Lowestoft, leaving approximately 100 miles to cover each day.
Using individual and corporate sponsorship, the project aims to raise £50,000 for charity. This money will be used to support both the Royal Air Force Association’s “Miles More Minutes Campaign” and also the charity, fly2help. Any money raised will be split 80:20% between RAFA and fly2help.
RAF personnel and their families dedicate their lives to their country. Money raised by the RAF Wings Appeal helps to provide the support needed to ensure that their sacrifice does not end in suffering, poverty or loneliness.
From offering help and financial support to individuals, to running projects that help keep serving families united and strong, the Wings Appeal is dedicated to supporting serving and ex RAF personnel and their families. Find out more at www.rafa.org.uk
fly2help is a leading UK aviation charity operating within the UK which was set up by a team of passionate aviators who are committed to helping others enjoy the inspiration and life enhancing privileges that being in the air can provide. Find out more at www.fly2help.org
Money raised by the challenge will go towards projects including the ‘Miles More Minutes’ campaign. ‘Miles More Minutes’ provides personnel who are serving overseas with more telephone time to call home. With the use of mobile phones being prohibited for those who are deployed in theatres such as Afghanistan, serving personnel are currently allocated 4 ½ minutes of talk time per day on an MOD line. Just £20 a month can provide one person with six extra minutes a day to speak to their loved ones.
By supporting this challenge, through Virgin Money Giving, you can help.
Please give generously and wish us luck!
It would appear that Jon's Widow, Emma is going to be taking his place on the ride.Using individual and corporate sponsorship, the project aims to raise £50,000 for charity. This money will be used to support both the Royal Air Force Association’s “Miles More Minutes Campaign” and also the charity, fly2help. Any money raised will be split 80:20% between RAFA and fly2help.
RAF personnel and their families dedicate their lives to their country. Money raised by the RAF Wings Appeal helps to provide the support needed to ensure that their sacrifice does not end in suffering, poverty or loneliness.
From offering help and financial support to individuals, to running projects that help keep serving families united and strong, the Wings Appeal is dedicated to supporting serving and ex RAF personnel and their families. Find out more at www.rafa.org.uk
fly2help is a leading UK aviation charity operating within the UK which was set up by a team of passionate aviators who are committed to helping others enjoy the inspiration and life enhancing privileges that being in the air can provide. Find out more at www.fly2help.org
Money raised by the challenge will go towards projects including the ‘Miles More Minutes’ campaign. ‘Miles More Minutes’ provides personnel who are serving overseas with more telephone time to call home. With the use of mobile phones being prohibited for those who are deployed in theatres such as Afghanistan, serving personnel are currently allocated 4 ½ minutes of talk time per day on an MOD line. Just £20 a month can provide one person with six extra minutes a day to speak to their loved ones.
By supporting this challenge, through Virgin Money Giving, you can help.
Please give generously and wish us luck!
Link here.
http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fundraiser-web/fun...
convert said:
It would appear that Jon's Widow, Emma is going to be taking his place on the ride.
It has been, but doesn't hurt to be re-posted.I was at Duxford on Sunday and Red 10 gave a quick speech thanking people for their support and that John's funeral had been on the previous day. hence no flying that day.
pleased to say the red arrows have announced their 2012 line up
The 2012 Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team has been announced.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/teamnews/index.cfm?stor...
The 2012 Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team has been announced.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/teamnews/index.cfm?stor...
Skodaku said:
Earlier this week the Red Arrows were flying 9-ship formations over the village, (I live near Scampton and we normally see them 3 or 4 times a day during training weeks). The lead aircraft was a black Hawk. Strangely moving sight.
The black Hawk is one of the spare aircraft on loan from RAF Valley. As it is a loan aircraft it isn't piped up with the smoke system, so it is better to put that in the lead to keep the formation (smoke wise) symmetrical.There were only 7 aircraft today, someone on another forum said that it is likely that both of the spares were not servicable.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Thus, while a 'Flypast' may include a 'Missing Man' (and note the 'Missing Man' is NOT a Formation per se, but a Formation where one a/c pulls up and OUT of the Formation), this will be a Flypast and NOT a full Public Display. Given that a Flypast is not a full display, then OC RAFAT will have the ability to authorise such.
For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Given that we are now in September and towards the end of the 2011 Display Season, I can't see this happening.
Well they must have had it re-authorised for the Great North Run. It's the first time i have ever seen it and i sincerely hope it's the last.For the Reds to do a 'Missing Man' as part of their display would require them to go back and be re-authorised by AOC 22 Gp.
Given that we are now in September and towards the end of the 2011 Display Season, I can't see this happening.
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