Thinking of learning to sail properly....advice please
Discussion
Like many here, I enjoy messing around on boats, be they powered by engines or or with sticks with cloth attached to them..
It seems I can be at least not a hindrance as a crew member, although i have never been properly taught.
With a bit more time now available to me, I am thinking it may be time to learn to sail properly.
There are so many different sailing schools in the solent, it is very hard to choose without some personal recommendation.
Could the PH collective offer the names and some links to a selection of sailing schools that fit the following criteria:
- Have some nice boats that are not knackered.
- Are run by decent people, lets say "Pistonheads" type of people. Not too young, not too old, perhaps people in the 30-45 age group with a sense of humour and a very professional approach.
- Are based in the Solent.
- Run small numbers of students at a time.
I want a school that is happy to push their students a little. I don't want to fanny around on a boat that is going to the pace of the slowest/most stupid member of the crew. I want to crack on and fast track to a decent standard in a reasonably short period of time. I don't want to share with any numpties or people with a low fear threshold, I want to get on with it in a professional environment and be a little challenged in the process.
Any recommendations welcome !
I thank you
It seems I can be at least not a hindrance as a crew member, although i have never been properly taught.
With a bit more time now available to me, I am thinking it may be time to learn to sail properly.
There are so many different sailing schools in the solent, it is very hard to choose without some personal recommendation.
Could the PH collective offer the names and some links to a selection of sailing schools that fit the following criteria:
- Have some nice boats that are not knackered.
- Are run by decent people, lets say "Pistonheads" type of people. Not too young, not too old, perhaps people in the 30-45 age group with a sense of humour and a very professional approach.
- Are based in the Solent.
- Run small numbers of students at a time.
I want a school that is happy to push their students a little. I don't want to fanny around on a boat that is going to the pace of the slowest/most stupid member of the crew. I want to crack on and fast track to a decent standard in a reasonably short period of time. I don't want to share with any numpties or people with a low fear threshold, I want to get on with it in a professional environment and be a little challenged in the process.
Any recommendations welcome !
I thank you
Three things...
One-learn in a dinghy. It will make you a far better sailor much more aware of what is going on with the boat. If you want to drive an F1 car, you need to start in karts.
Two-I assume you one day want to skipper your own yacht. A golden rule is that you sail that yacht in sympathy with the illest/scaredest/least competent/slowest/weakest person in your crew. Good skippering is as much about managing people in what might be a very stressful/dangerous/unpleasant situation, rather than just technical knowledge. It's also about living in very close proximity of people for a long time...saying "just want to check, non of you are scaredy cats are you?" is not going to go down brilliantly on day one or make you seem like a great sailor or someone your crew wants to trust. Sailing is a multi faceted hobby, it's not all just "ggrrrr man v elements" and you will feel a bit of a numpty having been tutting at someone who takes ages to grind a headsail in, when they "get" magnetic variation and deviation at the first pass and the instructor is still explaining it to you an hour later, or you forget something on the shopping list and your crew ask "skipper, is this out last toilet roll?"...
Three-you cannot fast-track to a decent standard. (Well you can, UKSA do Yachtmaster fast-track courses for a start, but it's a ticket at the end of the day). The one thing that gets you to a decent standard is experience...hours/miles...visiting many different ports/places, different weather, emergencies, etc etc etc. And you can't fast-track those!
One-learn in a dinghy. It will make you a far better sailor much more aware of what is going on with the boat. If you want to drive an F1 car, you need to start in karts.
Two-I assume you one day want to skipper your own yacht. A golden rule is that you sail that yacht in sympathy with the illest/scaredest/least competent/slowest/weakest person in your crew. Good skippering is as much about managing people in what might be a very stressful/dangerous/unpleasant situation, rather than just technical knowledge. It's also about living in very close proximity of people for a long time...saying "just want to check, non of you are scaredy cats are you?" is not going to go down brilliantly on day one or make you seem like a great sailor or someone your crew wants to trust. Sailing is a multi faceted hobby, it's not all just "ggrrrr man v elements" and you will feel a bit of a numpty having been tutting at someone who takes ages to grind a headsail in, when they "get" magnetic variation and deviation at the first pass and the instructor is still explaining it to you an hour later, or you forget something on the shopping list and your crew ask "skipper, is this out last toilet roll?"...
Three-you cannot fast-track to a decent standard. (Well you can, UKSA do Yachtmaster fast-track courses for a start, but it's a ticket at the end of the day). The one thing that gets you to a decent standard is experience...hours/miles...visiting many different ports/places, different weather, emergencies, etc etc etc. And you can't fast-track those!
Edited by Hard-Drive on Monday 26th September 14:32
Edited by Hard-Drive on Monday 26th September 14:38
In terms of developing sailing skills, one season of racing is more valuable than five years of cruising. Don't know who said this but it's true.
Best to start in dinghies as they are much more responsive and twitchy than yachts and capsizing / getting smacked by the boom is a great lesson that you wouldn't want taught in a big boat. You get to be helm, skipper, crew, trimmer all at once so learn all the different jobs and the Five Forces are much better appreciated in a flyweight dinghy than a multi-ton vessel.
But the main thing is to RACE!
Here are a couple of YACHT RACING sites:
http://www.sailinglogic.co.uk/
http://www.yachtingexperiences.co.uk/
Best to start in dinghies as they are much more responsive and twitchy than yachts and capsizing / getting smacked by the boom is a great lesson that you wouldn't want taught in a big boat. You get to be helm, skipper, crew, trimmer all at once so learn all the different jobs and the Five Forces are much better appreciated in a flyweight dinghy than a multi-ton vessel.
But the main thing is to RACE!
Here are a couple of YACHT RACING sites:
http://www.sailinglogic.co.uk/
http://www.yachtingexperiences.co.uk/
Hard-Drive said:
Three things...
One-learn in a dinghy. It will make you a far better sailor much more aware of what is going on with the boat. If you want to drive an F1 car, you need to start in karts.
Two-I assume you one day want to skipper your own yacht. A golden rule is that you sail that yacht in sympathy with the illest/scaredest/least competent/slowest/weakest person in your crew. Good skippering is as much about managing people in what might be a very stressful/dangerous/unpleasant situation, rather than just technical knowledge. It's also about living in very close proximity of people for a long time...saying "just want to check, non of you are scaredy cats are you?" is not going to go down brilliantly on day one or make you seem like a great sailor or someone your crew wants to trust. Sailing is a multi faceted hobby, it's not all just "ggrrrr man v elements" and you will feel a bit of a numpty having been tutting at someone who takes ages to grind a headsail in, when they "get" magnetic variation and deviation at the first pass and the instructor is still explaining it to you an hour later, or you forget something on the shopping list and your crew ask "skipper, is this out last toilet roll?"...
Three-you cannot fast-track to a decent standard. (Well you can, UKSA do Yachtmaster fast-track courses for a start, but it's a ticket at the end of the day). The one thing that gets you to a decent standard is experience...hours/miles...visiting many different ports/places, different weather, emergencies, etc etc etc. And you can't fast-track those!
Thanks for the response. One-learn in a dinghy. It will make you a far better sailor much more aware of what is going on with the boat. If you want to drive an F1 car, you need to start in karts.
Two-I assume you one day want to skipper your own yacht. A golden rule is that you sail that yacht in sympathy with the illest/scaredest/least competent/slowest/weakest person in your crew. Good skippering is as much about managing people in what might be a very stressful/dangerous/unpleasant situation, rather than just technical knowledge. It's also about living in very close proximity of people for a long time...saying "just want to check, non of you are scaredy cats are you?" is not going to go down brilliantly on day one or make you seem like a great sailor or someone your crew wants to trust. Sailing is a multi faceted hobby, it's not all just "ggrrrr man v elements" and you will feel a bit of a numpty having been tutting at someone who takes ages to grind a headsail in, when they "get" magnetic variation and deviation at the first pass and the instructor is still explaining it to you an hour later, or you forget something on the shopping list and your crew ask "skipper, is this out last toilet roll?"...
Three-you cannot fast-track to a decent standard. (Well you can, UKSA do Yachtmaster fast-track courses for a start, but it's a ticket at the end of the day). The one thing that gets you to a decent standard is experience...hours/miles...visiting many different ports/places, different weather, emergencies, etc etc etc. And you can't fast-track those!
Edited by Hard-Drive on Monday 26th September 14:32
Edited by Hard-Drive on Monday 26th September 14:38
I have messed around in dinghy's quite a bit in my yoof, so I can sail a bit ( admittedly in gravel pits, but you there you go ) . I have also spent sometime on boats ( did the Round the Island this year ) so I guess I may be a bit more confident than a pure first timer getting their competent crew. I am a willing grinder when someone shouts at me.
Don't get me wrong, I am approaching this with complete humility. I guess I am worried a little that when it comes to signing up for a course ( that I fully intend to take to yachtmaster ultimately ) it is important to find a school and a teacher that "fits". I am no weekend hero and know I have a lot to learn and that I need to get cold and wet to learn it. But I know a few friends who have been taught at different schools and they all seem to have mixed experiences. It seems as if it can be a bit of a lottery regarding who your skipper is and what kind of people you share the boat with ( and how many of them ) . I guess I am just trying to manage the variables as best I can by finding the right learning environment.
Ok. Excuse me, you'd come across as (dare I say it!) a bit more arrogant and a lot less experienced than you clearly are. And you are obviously keen if the RTIR did not put you off!
I think you need to ask yourself what kind of sailing do you want to do. Do you want to race, or cruise, or both? I totally agree with the comments above about racing teaching you a lot more about how to get the boat to go, or really working tides to your advantage, however as many racers leave the same familiar port, dash round the cans and head home again, there will be elements of cruising that racers will rarely do...perhaps entering an unfamiliar port at night, anchoring, etc etc.
If you've not already done it, I would recommend doing the dayskipper shorebased over the winter. This will cover a lot of theory and navigation. The nav bit is less valuable in the days of GPS, but you still need to know what to do if GPS fails, and of course lots of the principles are the same and you will need to know them. Do it locally at nightschool, or online. To be honest, I'm not a massive fan of the big RYA training machine, but the DS theory, whilst a bit dry, is a hugely useful course.
The bits that "crew" don't often do is close quarter manoevring, fixing broken things, and nav, 'cos the skipper always does that. Try and get friendly with someone who can take you on thier boat and let you get invovled in that, and then do your dayskipper practical if you want to.
I can't recommend any schools, but if you go and speak to a few and say exactly what you want out of it, what you are trying to achieve, the type of group you want to learn with, you won't go far wrong. You'll quickly weed out the "and you get this ticket at the end sign here please" lot from the schools who really want to work with you on your aims.
I dunno, I'd be tempted to try a really small outfit where the person who answers the phone is also your instructor and who deals with students personally and knows a crew you could fit into, rather than a big faceless training centre.
Good luck!
I think you need to ask yourself what kind of sailing do you want to do. Do you want to race, or cruise, or both? I totally agree with the comments above about racing teaching you a lot more about how to get the boat to go, or really working tides to your advantage, however as many racers leave the same familiar port, dash round the cans and head home again, there will be elements of cruising that racers will rarely do...perhaps entering an unfamiliar port at night, anchoring, etc etc.
If you've not already done it, I would recommend doing the dayskipper shorebased over the winter. This will cover a lot of theory and navigation. The nav bit is less valuable in the days of GPS, but you still need to know what to do if GPS fails, and of course lots of the principles are the same and you will need to know them. Do it locally at nightschool, or online. To be honest, I'm not a massive fan of the big RYA training machine, but the DS theory, whilst a bit dry, is a hugely useful course.
The bits that "crew" don't often do is close quarter manoevring, fixing broken things, and nav, 'cos the skipper always does that. Try and get friendly with someone who can take you on thier boat and let you get invovled in that, and then do your dayskipper practical if you want to.
I can't recommend any schools, but if you go and speak to a few and say exactly what you want out of it, what you are trying to achieve, the type of group you want to learn with, you won't go far wrong. You'll quickly weed out the "and you get this ticket at the end sign here please" lot from the schools who really want to work with you on your aims.
I dunno, I'd be tempted to try a really small outfit where the person who answers the phone is also your instructor and who deals with students personally and knows a crew you could fit into, rather than a big faceless training centre.
Good luck!
What the other chaps said, fella. Get yourself racing & you will progress extremely quicky.
The number of times I've had someone new come on to the boat & talked up 10+ years of cruising experience, only to find they barely know the blunt end from the sharp end is quite depressing, as you end up spending the whole race making they don't kill themselves or someone else.
I am always delighted when we get a newbie on the boat, who actually acknowledges that they are new, as I can then spend time with them making sure they are comfortable with what all the lines do (and making them realise that there is always something at the other end of the piece of string they are pulling!!!), they are comfortable with safety & how to sail safely & give them a role to do that keeps them involved in the race, but makes sure they don't put people including themselves) in jeopardy if things go wrong (which they generally will) & I can keep an eye on them.
I love sailing & have been racing competitively for around 30 years since I stepped into an Oppy at 8 years old! During that time, I have seen some people really cause damage to themselves (one guy who was trimming the main on one boat I raced was killed by the boom through not doing a controlled gybe in 35+ kts of brreze). I have also seen some people come back from a breezy race absolutely buzzing with adrenaline, as they acknowledged that they were new, so I & some of the other crew were able to look after them, keep them safe & get them involved.
It is a truly amazing sport & racing (be it in dinghies, keelboats or off-shore yachts) puts a completely different angle on it. Plus, it makes you a better cruising sailor, as a) you get there faster! and b) there is none of the typical husband screaming at wife scenario, which is borne out of incompetence by both parties!.
If you are interested & can access Lymington, I'll see if there are any places going on our boat in the Autumn series.
The number of times I've had someone new come on to the boat & talked up 10+ years of cruising experience, only to find they barely know the blunt end from the sharp end is quite depressing, as you end up spending the whole race making they don't kill themselves or someone else.
I am always delighted when we get a newbie on the boat, who actually acknowledges that they are new, as I can then spend time with them making sure they are comfortable with what all the lines do (and making them realise that there is always something at the other end of the piece of string they are pulling!!!), they are comfortable with safety & how to sail safely & give them a role to do that keeps them involved in the race, but makes sure they don't put people including themselves) in jeopardy if things go wrong (which they generally will) & I can keep an eye on them.
I love sailing & have been racing competitively for around 30 years since I stepped into an Oppy at 8 years old! During that time, I have seen some people really cause damage to themselves (one guy who was trimming the main on one boat I raced was killed by the boom through not doing a controlled gybe in 35+ kts of brreze). I have also seen some people come back from a breezy race absolutely buzzing with adrenaline, as they acknowledged that they were new, so I & some of the other crew were able to look after them, keep them safe & get them involved.
It is a truly amazing sport & racing (be it in dinghies, keelboats or off-shore yachts) puts a completely different angle on it. Plus, it makes you a better cruising sailor, as a) you get there faster! and b) there is none of the typical husband screaming at wife scenario, which is borne out of incompetence by both parties!.
If you are interested & can access Lymington, I'll see if there are any places going on our boat in the Autumn series.
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