Sale of Typhoon to India
Discussion
Yes that chopper crashed shortly after take-off. It appears to be an accident.
I am in India myself at the moment and spent a few hours at Pune airport this afternoon watching the armed Su-30 MKIs take off and land inbetween the airliners. Many commercial flights were cancelled, but mine to Mumbai was OK. Always great to be waiting in an airliner at the end of the Pune (Lohegaon) runway for an Su-30 to take off or land.
I'm supposed to be flying from Mumbai to Chandigarh (Punjab) on Monday, but that airport was closed to commercial flights today (also shared with the Air Force transport squadron), so not sure what's going to happen.
As you can imagine, it's the only thing anyone's talking about here.
I am in India myself at the moment and spent a few hours at Pune airport this afternoon watching the armed Su-30 MKIs take off and land inbetween the airliners. Many commercial flights were cancelled, but mine to Mumbai was OK. Always great to be waiting in an airliner at the end of the Pune (Lohegaon) runway for an Su-30 to take off or land.
I'm supposed to be flying from Mumbai to Chandigarh (Punjab) on Monday, but that airport was closed to commercial flights today (also shared with the Air Force transport squadron), so not sure what's going to happen.
As you can imagine, it's the only thing anyone's talking about here.
LotusOmega375D said:
I'm supposed to be flying from Mumbai to Chandigarh (Punjab) on Monday, but that airport was closed to commercial flights today (also shared with the Air Force transport squadron), so not sure what's going to happen.
You should take your life into your own hands and take the train.LotusOmega375D said:
Always great to be waiting in an airliner at the end of the Pune (Lohegaon) runway for an Su-30 to take off or land.
I remember flying into and out of Verona airport (Villafranca Airbase) for a skiing holiday back in 1990 and landing/taxing/taking-off amid the howl of the resident 3rd Stormo Starfighter operations - marvellous 
FourWheelDrift said:
Yertis said:
IanH755 said:
The photos from one crash show a helicopter tailboom and main gearbox with its support struts, so I'd not put much faith in the initial reports of the aircraft types involved being too accurate yet.
It's definitely a (squished) MiG 21 in one of the pics.Countdown said:
AIUI
Pakistanis claiming two fighters shot down
Indians claiming a plane and a Mi-17 helicopter both suffered mechanical failure
There is Mig-21 wreckage on the Pakistani side of the border and Mi-17 wreckage on the Indian side of the border. One IAF pilot has been captured.
Mechanical failure due to impact damage caused by explosively propelled shrapnel?Pakistanis claiming two fighters shot down
Indians claiming a plane and a Mi-17 helicopter both suffered mechanical failure
There is Mig-21 wreckage on the Pakistani side of the border and Mi-17 wreckage on the Indian side of the border. One IAF pilot has been captured.
Ridiculous TV press conference on Indian TV now. The Indian Air Force representative is holding aloft a section of AMRAAM missile recovered from the recent engagement like a Lonsdale belt. "Apparently" Pakistan claimed that no F-16 was used in the engagement, but AMRAAM contradicts this. Who cares? Why would you not scramble your best fighters to oppose an aggressor over your territory? An F16 versus an MiG 21? What do you expect to happen?
The sub-continent's gone mad.
Hopefully IAF pilot gets returned tomorrow and we can all get back to life as normal.
Nothing to see here...
The sub-continent's gone mad.
Hopefully IAF pilot gets returned tomorrow and we can all get back to life as normal.
Nothing to see here...
Well just after I posted that, the Indian TV comercials showed an advert for the new "MG" SUV, which will be available in India soon. The marque is unknown in India, so they explain "Morris Garages" to help the viewer. The car will be known as the "Hector". Something at the back of my mind, thinks that this refers to MG of old. Am I right or wrong?
LotusOmega375D said:
Ridiculous TV press conference on Indian TV now. The Indian Air Force representative is holding aloft a section of AMRAAM missile recovered from the recent engagement like a Lonsdale belt. "Apparently" Pakistan claimed that no F-16 was used in the engagement, but AMRAAM contradicts this. Who cares? Why would you not scramble your best fighters to oppose an aggressor over your territory? An F16 versus an MiG 21? What do you expect to happen?
The sub-continent's gone mad.
Hopefully IAF pilot gets returned tomorrow and we can all get back to life as normal.
Nothing to see here...
I haven't followed "Air Forces of the World" for about thirty years but even so I'm pretty surprised a country like India would still field a MiG-21, of whatever variant. The sub-continent's gone mad.
Hopefully IAF pilot gets returned tomorrow and we can all get back to life as normal.
Nothing to see here...
had ham said:
FourWheelDrift said:
You should take your life into your own hands and take the train.
Or drive, have done that a few times, normally with a stop off halfway at an old mountain fort for lunch. Pretty easy drive, for India, only 2 1/2 hrs if you don't stop. Risk of death low(ish) 
Yertis said:
I haven't followed "Air Forces of the World" for about thirty years but even so I'm pretty surprised a country like India would still field a MiG-21, of whatever variant.
A couple of relevant stories in today's Indian paper. PIL means Public Interest Litigation.
And this one takes this old thread full circle. Procrastination, procrastination, procrastination... Makes our military procurement seem exemplary!
Here they go again.....
“India edges forward with rebooted plan to acquire 110 fighters”
“.......The 110 aircraft deal represents a reboot of New Delhi’s failed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition for 126 advanced fighters. This epic competition climaxed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February 2011, with Saab, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Dassault, and Eurofighter putting on a major marketing push.
Ultimately Dassault’s Rafale won, but the deal collapsed in 2015. among other issues, a main sticking point was apparently the terms of local production. The deal was to see 18 aircraft delivered in a flyaway condition, and the balance produced by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) locally.
Dassault is understood to have balked at a stipulation that it would be held responsible for the production quality of HAL produced jets.....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-e...
“India edges forward with rebooted plan to acquire 110 fighters”
“.......The 110 aircraft deal represents a reboot of New Delhi’s failed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition for 126 advanced fighters. This epic competition climaxed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February 2011, with Saab, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Dassault, and Eurofighter putting on a major marketing push.
Ultimately Dassault’s Rafale won, but the deal collapsed in 2015. among other issues, a main sticking point was apparently the terms of local production. The deal was to see 18 aircraft delivered in a flyaway condition, and the balance produced by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) locally.
Dassault is understood to have balked at a stipulation that it would be held responsible for the production quality of HAL produced jets.....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-e...
BlackLabel said:
Here they go again.....
“India edges forward with rebooted plan to acquire 110 fighters”
“.......The 110 aircraft deal represents a reboot of New Delhi’s failed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition for 126 advanced fighters. This epic competition climaxed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February 2011, with Saab, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Dassault, and Eurofighter putting on a major marketing push.
Ultimately Dassault’s Rafale won, but the deal collapsed in 2015. among other issues, a main sticking point was apparently the terms of local production. The deal was to see 18 aircraft delivered in a flyaway condition, and the balance produced by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) locally.
Dassault is understood to have balked at a stipulation that it would be held responsible for the production quality of HAL produced jets.....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-e...
Can't say I blame them “India edges forward with rebooted plan to acquire 110 fighters”
“.......The 110 aircraft deal represents a reboot of New Delhi’s failed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition for 126 advanced fighters. This epic competition climaxed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February 2011, with Saab, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Dassault, and Eurofighter putting on a major marketing push.
Ultimately Dassault’s Rafale won, but the deal collapsed in 2015. among other issues, a main sticking point was apparently the terms of local production. The deal was to see 18 aircraft delivered in a flyaway condition, and the balance produced by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) locally.
Dassault is understood to have balked at a stipulation that it would be held responsible for the production quality of HAL produced jets.....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-e...
Marlin45 said:
BlackLabel said:
Here they go again.....
“India edges forward with rebooted plan to acquire 110 fighters”
“.......The 110 aircraft deal represents a reboot of New Delhi’s failed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition for 126 advanced fighters. This epic competition climaxed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February 2011, with Saab, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Dassault, and Eurofighter putting on a major marketing push.
Ultimately Dassault’s Rafale won, but the deal collapsed in 2015. among other issues, a main sticking point was apparently the terms of local production. The deal was to see 18 aircraft delivered in a flyaway condition, and the balance produced by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) locally.
Dassault is understood to have balked at a stipulation that it would be held responsible for the production quality of HAL produced jets.....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-e...
Can't say I blame them “India edges forward with rebooted plan to acquire 110 fighters”
“.......The 110 aircraft deal represents a reboot of New Delhi’s failed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition for 126 advanced fighters. This epic competition climaxed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February 2011, with Saab, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Dassault, and Eurofighter putting on a major marketing push.
Ultimately Dassault’s Rafale won, but the deal collapsed in 2015. among other issues, a main sticking point was apparently the terms of local production. The deal was to see 18 aircraft delivered in a flyaway condition, and the balance produced by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) locally.
Dassault is understood to have balked at a stipulation that it would be held responsible for the production quality of HAL produced jets.....”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-e...
Not surprised they walked away.
I wonder what the difference will be this time? Senior pilots get to fly the OEM aircraft, whereas the newbies only get to chance it with the Indian assembled aircraft?
I think the Yanks want a piece of this. They were nowhere in the original contest and see this as an unexpected second chance to shift some more F16s and A/F18s. Since these are now relatively old designs, they are probably less precious about Transfer of Technology issues. They would probably welcome access to cheap labour anyway. I wonder how many years the new contest will take? The recent conflict certainly focused their attention on the ageing fleet and with Modi settled for a second term, now is the best time to get a deal signed and sealed.
I think the Yanks want a piece of this. They were nowhere in the original contest and see this as an unexpected second chance to shift some more F16s and A/F18s. Since these are now relatively old designs, they are probably less precious about Transfer of Technology issues. They would probably welcome access to cheap labour anyway. I wonder how many years the new contest will take? The recent conflict certainly focused their attention on the ageing fleet and with Modi settled for a second term, now is the best time to get a deal signed and sealed.
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