could anyone land a jumbo jet
Discussion
What if it's an Airbus (FBW)? Pretty common machine these days. If one could establish comms with our hero...
And that's basically it. Given the almost hypothetical situation here, I'd be having everything done with automatics. End Of. I certainly agree with you, unless you were indeed conversant with swept wing modern airliners/mil aircraft, I wouldn't want anyone trying to do a manual landing if it could be avoided. That goes for the PPL/Flight Sim brigade. It's not because you couldn't do it, its becuase you might get it right first time in the simulator with an instructor behind you. You might get it right first time on flight sims. You HAVE to get it right first time in the real world. Ergo it will be made as easy as possible for our hero (and if Jo Bloggs of the streets does just that, the Daily Mail/Sun et all can justifiably call you such..)
(Some amusing replies here though)
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
How are you going to get on to your 'big line in' without turning?
Easy with Airbus FBW 'point and shoot'.
And what are you going to do when the nose slices in the bank (as all swept wing a/c do)?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW
What pitch angle are you going to select as you slow to 180 kts without descending?
Irrelevant with Airbus Flight Path Angle
What about the pitch change(s) when you take flap?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW
What are you going to do with Power vs Flap vs Gear? And how much? And how much do you lower the nose?
Leave Autothrust on.
Do you even have any idea of the Trim changes that will occur and what to do to deal with them?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW (you don't trim a Bus)
What are you going to do about pitch change with power?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW
How much power do you apply?
See three above
Do you know how jet engines accelerate (HINT they do NOT give instant oomphf)?
Above 30-40% N1 Engine repsonse is no problem.
WHEN are you going to flare?
A soon as it shouts "Retard Retard Retard" But you had better be quick to react....
ETC, ETC, ETC....
Despite the PH willy waving of how members would be so good at doing stuff for which they have neither training nor experience let me (as an A2 QFI with several thousand hours experience) tell you something - try to do it manually and you will tent peg. The ONLY chance you have (even if you do have a PPL
) is to be talked through an AutoLand. Even then you better hope for a day with perfect conditions and a runway with no X-wind, let alone gusts.
Now....if the FBW are goosed....Good Luck.Easy with Airbus FBW 'point and shoot'.
And what are you going to do when the nose slices in the bank (as all swept wing a/c do)?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW
What pitch angle are you going to select as you slow to 180 kts without descending?
Irrelevant with Airbus Flight Path Angle
What about the pitch change(s) when you take flap?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW
What are you going to do with Power vs Flap vs Gear? And how much? And how much do you lower the nose?
Leave Autothrust on.
Do you even have any idea of the Trim changes that will occur and what to do to deal with them?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW (you don't trim a Bus)
What are you going to do about pitch change with power?
Irrelevant with Airbus FBW
How much power do you apply?
See three above
Do you know how jet engines accelerate (HINT they do NOT give instant oomphf)?
Above 30-40% N1 Engine repsonse is no problem.
WHEN are you going to flare?
A soon as it shouts "Retard Retard Retard" But you had better be quick to react....
ETC, ETC, ETC....
Despite the PH willy waving of how members would be so good at doing stuff for which they have neither training nor experience let me (as an A2 QFI with several thousand hours experience) tell you something - try to do it manually and you will tent peg. The ONLY chance you have (even if you do have a PPL
) is to be talked through an AutoLand. Even then you better hope for a day with perfect conditions and a runway with no X-wind, let alone gusts.And that's basically it. Given the almost hypothetical situation here, I'd be having everything done with automatics. End Of. I certainly agree with you, unless you were indeed conversant with swept wing modern airliners/mil aircraft, I wouldn't want anyone trying to do a manual landing if it could be avoided. That goes for the PPL/Flight Sim brigade. It's not because you couldn't do it, its becuase you might get it right first time in the simulator with an instructor behind you. You might get it right first time on flight sims. You HAVE to get it right first time in the real world. Ergo it will be made as easy as possible for our hero (and if Jo Bloggs of the streets does just that, the Daily Mail/Sun et all can justifiably call you such..)
(Some amusing replies here though)
essayer said:
sharpfocus said:
Putting it down just off the coast probably isn't the worst idea in the world anyway.
A bit like thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw871vN2c18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3RkU0i5IPk&fea...
2 girls I used to work with survived that.
Why is that people aspiring to fly airliners always have to clock up a few hundred hours on light aircraft first? Given the differences I'd have though someone with no flying experience could be trained in an airliner simulator just like someone who'd been knocking around in a Cessna 152.
Dr Jekyll said:
Why is that people aspiring to fly airliners always have to clock up a few hundred hours on light aircraft first? Given the differences I'd have though someone with no flying experience could be trained in an airliner simulator just like someone who'd been knocking around in a Cessna 152.
Thats the way commercial Pilot training is heading. You can now gain a 'multi-pilot' Airline Transport Pilots License which means all your training is 'two crew'. This is all carried out in approved simulators as apossed to 200 hrs spent bimbling around the countryside trying to stay out of trouble!What single pilot light aircraft flying does give you is real life hands on experience with weather, air traffic control etc and the resposibility that comes with taking to the sky alone with no-one else along side to help you. Just better all round experience and character building!!
I would give it a go . I've been flying rc planes and heli's for years . And have flown the real stuff as well . Got on with it very well . The instuctor for the heli i had a go with said that if you can fly model heli's it makes it easer to fly a real 1 . Would of thought its the same for planes .
I would give it a go too. Not because I think I'm any great shakes as a pilot but at least to have a try is better than letting a crash happen. Although there would probably be a queue to the cockpit door with all the other keyboard warriors wanting to have a go as well.
Also if these guys who are professional pilots can land a plane with minimal flight controls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_fligh... then the converse should also work and someone who isn't a professional should be able to at least make a good fist of it with full controls. When the throttles only scenario was repeated in the simulator afterwards it resulted in a 'virtual' smoking crater every time, so not even experience in a simulator for an amateur is any sort of plus.
It would have to be on a decent sized runway though, I don't like the idea of water as some have suggested, too many chances for an engine to dig in and flip or destroy the aircraft. I was going to suggest a runway away from Heathrow but it seems they have the longest runway, although Fairford and Machrihanish would probably be good alternatives in this country.
Also if these guys who are professional pilots can land a plane with minimal flight controls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_fligh... then the converse should also work and someone who isn't a professional should be able to at least make a good fist of it with full controls. When the throttles only scenario was repeated in the simulator afterwards it resulted in a 'virtual' smoking crater every time, so not even experience in a simulator for an amateur is any sort of plus.
It would have to be on a decent sized runway though, I don't like the idea of water as some have suggested, too many chances for an engine to dig in and flip or destroy the aircraft. I was going to suggest a runway away from Heathrow but it seems they have the longest runway, although Fairford and Machrihanish would probably be good alternatives in this country.
I'd imagine anyone with say even a ppl and instruction would land one with a very long runway. But the sheer speed required before stall to land one of these would take balls. and that's before x-winds etc Dont know if any one mentioned it but in the 80s the Soviet Space Shuttle the Buran did a launch, a few orbits of the earth and landed itself with no one onboard. It had no life support or software on the CRT monitors but they sent it up anyhows. I have read on landing it encountered 34mph cross winds and managed to land 5ft from the centre line of the runway and this probably with a memory capacity similar to the latest smart phones. It only ever made one space flight mind, then the russians stored it in some dodgy hangar where the roof collapsed in the early 2000s and destroyed it 
But back on point, surely a 747 with modern systems and the facility of enginer power for correction should be able to land relativly easily if a brick of a russian space shuttle could hit the mark on its one and only proper mission?
But back on point, surely a 747 with modern systems and the facility of enginer power for correction should be able to land relativly easily if a brick of a russian space shuttle could hit the mark on its one and only proper mission?
Just got back from a cheeky 2hr sesh in an A320 simulator...having not flown any fixed-wing since 1997 (all rotary since then) I managed to land one single-engined, at Gib.
My shirt is soaking and the pax have no fillings, but we got down, safely....ish!
Awesome, awesome aircraft......
My shirt is soaking and the pax have no fillings, but we got down, safely....ish!
Awesome, awesome aircraft......
siko said:
Just got back from a cheeky 2hr sesh in an A320 simulator...having not flown any fixed-wing since 1997 (all rotary since then) I managed to land one single-engined, at Gib.
My shirt is soaking and the pax have no fillings, but we got down, safely....ish!
Awesome, awesome aircraft......
Just out of interest,but was it a gin clear day, 5 kts down the strip, and was there a fully qualified current, pilot sat next to you telling you exactly what to do and when to do it? My shirt is soaking and the pax have no fillings, but we got down, safely....ish!
Awesome, awesome aircraft......
speedyellowrs said:
Just out of interest,but was it a gin clear day, 5 kts down the strip, and was there a fully qualified current, pilot sat next to you telling you exactly what to do and when to do it?
....with the aircraft trimmed and set up on the glideslope straight in about 10 miles out?Haha!
Yes to first post, a senior tc and no to second! We flew what I thought were fairly tight circuits for a jet but he did everything bar move my right wrist!
I never said it was easy....awesome at speed but a handful on finals, the tc did say the older gen jets, ie 737, were harder to fly. May find out one day.....
Yes to first post, a senior tc and no to second! We flew what I thought were fairly tight circuits for a jet but he did everything bar move my right wrist!
I never said it was easy....awesome at speed but a handful on finals, the tc did say the older gen jets, ie 737, were harder to fly. May find out one day.....
peter tdci said:
I think that commercial pilots will use the autopilot up to the last few hundred feet above the airfield and then almost always turn it off to make a manual landing.
They to have a certain number of manual landings in their log book over the preceding month to keep their licence current. Quite easy for short haul pilots, but potentially more difficult for long haul pilots who might only have one flight every two or three days (and do the landing in only half of those).
Ok, chalk that one down to another urdan myth then. I did wonder.They to have a certain number of manual landings in their log book over the preceding month to keep their licence current. Quite easy for short haul pilots, but potentially more difficult for long haul pilots who might only have one flight every two or three days (and do the landing in only half of those).
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff