What happened to Air France Flight 447
Discussion
Sorry guys, re: altitude/attitude, I was reading too fast and, no, I don't know a great deal about planes - I only ever get to sit in the back wishing I could have a nosey at the 'business end' or at least afford a session in a simulator. I do know about the artificial horizon but I figured if that had been an option for them they'd have used it!
MitchT said:
Theflyer said:
How old and tall are you?
37 and 5'7"This seems like 2 birds with one stone situ.
( Obviously for free, and I will only ever do this for one person on here and Mitch is there first.)
Theflyer said:
I'll see what I can do as I've been wanting to get into a simulator for some time just to prove a theory to someone but just haven't had the time.
This seems like 2 birds with one stone situ.
( Obviously for free, and I will only ever do this for one person on here and Mitch is there first.)
Sounds awesome This seems like 2 birds with one stone situ.
( Obviously for free, and I will only ever do this for one person on here and Mitch is there first.)
Will keep my fingers crossed!Flame me to bits but would not a cup of coffee/bottle of water tell the AoA?
Perhaps even bank angle to the left/right?
Even if you did not trust the instruments, this would surely tell you what attitude the aircraft was taking.
-Distance from lip to surface of fluid greater at rear of cup than the front = aircraft is in a nose-up attitude
-As above but left and right side heights are different - plane in a banked climb or descent
-Assuming the altitude is dropping, but the coffee/water says the AoA is nose high, then irrespective of whatever the instruments are saying, the solution is to pitch nose forward and (I am guessing here) at least increase engine power so as to halt the descent.
Eliminate the descent from the equation and you could focus on the other elements to determine what is wrong.
Does that make any sense?
Perhaps even bank angle to the left/right?
Even if you did not trust the instruments, this would surely tell you what attitude the aircraft was taking.
-Distance from lip to surface of fluid greater at rear of cup than the front = aircraft is in a nose-up attitude
-As above but left and right side heights are different - plane in a banked climb or descent
-Assuming the altitude is dropping, but the coffee/water says the AoA is nose high, then irrespective of whatever the instruments are saying, the solution is to pitch nose forward and (I am guessing here) at least increase engine power so as to halt the descent.
Eliminate the descent from the equation and you could focus on the other elements to determine what is wrong.
Does that make any sense?
How many times do people have to explain that Angle of Attack is NOT the pitch angle of the aircraft with respect to the ground? Therefore liquid in a flask, spirit levels etc have no use whatsoever in determining whether an aircraft is stalled.
Watch a video of a Typhoon climbing vertically - what is the AoA? What is the Pitch Angle? What would happen to your cup of water?
Watch a video of a Typhoon climbing vertically - what is the AoA? What is the Pitch Angle? What would happen to your cup of water?
Edited by MarkK on Wednesday 21st December 20:38
MarkK said:
How many times do people have to explain that Angle of Attack is NOT the pitch angle of the aircraft with respect to the ground? Therefore liquid in a flask, spirit levels etc have no use whatsoever in determining whether an aircraft is stalled.
Watch a video of a Typhoon climbing vertically - what is the AoA? What is the Pitch Angle? What would happen to your cup of water?
"What would happen to your cup of water?" Depends if you are in a stable vertical climb or transitioning through Watch a video of a Typhoon climbing vertically - what is the AoA? What is the Pitch Angle? What would happen to your cup of water?
Edited by MarkK on Wednesday 21st December 20:38
c7xlg said:
Love that. Spirit level/plumb line ideas should hopefully now be put to rest 
Without looking, is that the video of the fellow pouring juice in into a glass while in a roll? Some sort of high winged twin engined plane?
Anyways, riddle me this:
B-52 on take off or landing - what is the pitch/AoA information on that?
Anyways, riddle me this:
B-52 on take off or landing - what is the pitch/AoA information on that?
- I have chosen a B-52 for a good reason!*
yep... that is the video. I was after the one of a B707 being rolled as I thought that had a glass of water in at at well but found this one instead, which includes filling the glass up from a jug!
I don't know about the b-52... at a guess the exaggerated wing droop when fully loaded and static results in some twisting of the wing and hence changing AoA as airspeed increases and the wing lifts up during the (jato assisted) take off roll...
F-8 Crusader has/had interesting AoA properties when flying slowly to.....
I don't know about the b-52... at a guess the exaggerated wing droop when fully loaded and static results in some twisting of the wing and hence changing AoA as airspeed increases and the wing lifts up during the (jato assisted) take off roll...
F-8 Crusader has/had interesting AoA properties when flying slowly to.....
AndyACB said:
No
Lots of other forces at work on the aircraft other than just tipping up/down left/right. Take a car with perfectly flat suspension and accelerate forwards - what happens to your cup of water?
True, but if at a constant speed on the motorway the water would be level and veering left or right, the cup of water would indidicate a directional change.Lots of other forces at work on the aircraft other than just tipping up/down left/right. Take a car with perfectly flat suspension and accelerate forwards - what happens to your cup of water?
I did it a few flights ago when we were cruising along and the plane was nose high (could be felt by walking and also putting a pen on the table and seeing where it went) and the info screen was showing a constant altitude.
However, a better result was obtained when I poured the water into an empty salad tray thing that was rectangular in shape and orientated it longways on the axis of travel - the 'pitch (?)' of the aircraft was much more apparent then.
I'll shut up now and go back to my seat in economy, put on a movie and console myself that we would impact so quickly I would not even have time to process what had happened.
Funny thing is that on the last trip to Oz earlier this year, the HK-SYD legs were on an A330 and I remember thinking about AF447 and wondering what happened.
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