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jbi

Original Poster:

7,497 posts

87 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
Fresh off the production line, a train built to break records.

Theoretically capable of 500kmh travel












jaybirduk

1,558 posts

50 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
Very impressive and at the same time sad given the fact that we used to be a nation famous for engineering especially railway engineering frown

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14817281


TheHeretic

73,668 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
For the UK to have anything remotely similar to that it would require massive investment not in trains, but in the tracks.

Crossflow Kid

7,186 posts

74 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
Is there a drink's chiller in the fourth photo? Can't quite make it out.

jbi

Original Poster:

7,497 posts

87 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
For the UK to have anything remotely similar to that it would require massive investment not in trains, but in the tracks.
yup.. the Chinese use completely grade separated tracks which have very good alignment and no ballast

The tracks themselves are laser aligned and welded




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Simpo Two

59,229 posts

148 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
jaybirduk said:
Very impressive and at the same time sad given the fact that we used to be a nation famous for engineering especially railway engineering frown
Ah well you see we got complacent and lazy, and thought that making stuff was for mugs. So instead we borrowed money and bought in stuff from more industrious nations whose workers didn't get £30K pa and paternity leave. And that is how all the money ended up in China.

BTW the windows in photos 2 and 3 are different - two trains?

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
Simpo Two said:
Ah well you see we got complacent and lazy, and thought that making stuff was for mugs. So instead we borrowed money and bought in stuff from more industrious nations whose workers didn't get £30K pa and paternity leave. And that is how all the money ended up in China.

BTW the windows in photos 2 and 3 are different - two trains?
It is not that at all. The gauge of our tracks, and the way they wind through the country do not lend themselves to high speed lines. We do not have the 'banking' to enable high speed cornering, and all the other lovely stuff. For us to have a high speed railway, it will take a brand new line wherever it will run. Existing rail will not be sufficient. That will be fking expensive.

jaybirduk

1,558 posts

50 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
Simpo Two said:
Ah well you see we got complacent and lazy, and thought that making stuff was for mugs. So instead we borrowed money and bought in stuff from more industrious nations whose workers didn't get £30K pa and paternity leave. And that is how all the money ended up in China.

BTW the windows in photos 2 and 3 are different - two trains?
It is not that at all. The gauge of our tracks, and the way they wind through the country do not lend themselves to high speed lines. We do not have the 'banking' to enable high speed cornering, and all the other lovely stuff. For us to have a high speed railway, it will take a brand new line wherever it will run. Existing rail will not be sufficient. That will be fking expensive.
It is that. China built brand new rail infrastructure for these new generation of trains. Even our own government would rather give trAn contracts to the Germans frown

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
jaybirduk said:
It is that. China built brand new rail infrastructure for these new generation of trains. Even our own government would rather give trAn contracts to the Germans frown
China has a stload more disposable cash than we do, I think. We just couldn't afford it.

jbi

Original Poster:

7,497 posts

87 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
It is not that at all. The gauge of our tracks, and the way they wind through the country do not lend themselves to high speed lines.
Just to clarify... the chinese use standard gauge track just like we do.

Our problem is indeed the fact our current railways simply are not suited to high speed running and would need to be ripped up entirely and started again.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
jbi said:
Just to clarify... the chinese use standard gauge track just like we do.

Our problem is indeed the fact our current railways simply are not suited to high speed running and would need to be ripped up entirely and started again.
Ah, I heard the opposite regarding the gauge, something about them being too narrow for the high speed stuff, and our tracks are basically too twisty and bendy to get to high speed. They did, I think, have a tilting train at one point, or came up with a design, or something, that alleviated the issue, but this was a few years ago. I'm no train buff.

jbi

Original Poster:

7,497 posts

87 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
Ah, I heard the opposite regarding the gauge, something about them being too narrow for the high speed stuff, and our tracks are basically too twisty and bendy to get to high speed. They did, I think, have a tilting train at one point, or came up with a design, or something, that alleviated the issue, but this was a few years ago. I'm no train buff.
The UK pioneered the tilting train technology to speed up through corners but I think it was scrapped due to technical problems and making passengers motion sick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Tr...

Many successful tilting train designs have since been developed in other countries such as Japan and Italy who are more than happy to sell them back to us frown


Simpo Two

59,229 posts

148 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
It is not that at all. The gauge of our tracks...
I was viewing it from a rather more global level.

Back to trains, yes, the problem with being first to industrialise is that you are also the first to become obsolete. We also have twice the population density of China, and the Nimbys of Oxfordshire are rather harder to dislodge than yer average Chinese peasant who simply gets his house bulldozed smile

But whatever, high(er) speed rail in GB is hardly a priority just now, whereas in the vastness of China it makes more sense. So they have the need and the money; we have neither.

HarryW

11,931 posts

152 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd December 2011 quote quote all
jbi said:
.....

The tracks themselves are laser aligned and welded



welded? how do they maintain alignment when they expand / contract.

jbi

Original Poster:

7,497 posts

87 months

Mr_B

5,977 posts

126 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th December 2011 quote quote all
Imagine the planning hassle and the years it would drag on for, not to mention the cost to plan a complete new line from say London to Birmingham. I think in China it might not be a 10 year consultation and compensation procedure.

jbi

Original Poster:

7,497 posts

87 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th December 2011 quote quote all
In china the peasants essentially "lease" the land from the local government as private ownerships not permitted.

They are still supposed to be compensated for their loss and re-housed, and the company responsible does indeed have to pay compensation to the residents through the local government.

however I would imagine the peasants don't get to see all off their money as the local party governments tend to be quite corrupt.

It is cheaper for the companies to build thousands of miles of elevated viaduct than to pay off the peasants/officials for their land.

Graebob

2,167 posts

90 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th December 2011 quote quote all
Forgive the slight thread derail (pun intended)

As a layman with basically 0 knowledge of rail infrastructure, to me it seems to almost be a waste of time to build high speed lines in the UK. In my admittedly un-knowledgeable head, it just seems that we are geographically too small to support a high speed infrastructure. Sure, we could make journey times between major cities quicker, but the massive investment involved to save such a relatively small amount of time seems to me to make it a bit of a waste. Every major high speed network I know of (again, limited knowledge here, I'm thinking of TGV and the Chinese) have vast distances to cover, where the time saving is significant and comparable to air travel. Aren't we just too small an island to support a high speed network?

Back on topic, 500kmh is an amazing thing, must be otherworldly actually being in a vehicle so close to the ground going that quickly.

Simpo Two

59,229 posts

148 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th December 2011 quote quote all
Graebob said:
Aren't we just too small an island to support a high speed network?
Yes, but it would be regarded as a 'national pride' thing. Like the Millennium Dome.

cal216610

7,814 posts

53 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th December 2011 quote quote all
Simpo Two said:
Yes, but it would be regarded as a 'national pride' thing. Like the Millennium Dome.
rofl etc etc etc...
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