Selling a boat, advice, state of the market & sea trials
Discussion
I posted up a thread a couple of days ago on a boating forum in response to people who had been moaning about how hard they were finding it to sell their boats or how any offers they had received had been low and insulting. In every instance when you clicked through to their adverts you were greeted by pictures of mould, debris, washing up cloths, rust and so on. In one case a broker had even gone to the trouble of photographing a stain in the carpet presumable hoping that would in some way aid the sale.
I posted up a link to a little micro site I'd done to host photos and details of our boat which we are selling in order to upgrade to a larger model within the Princess flybridge range. I wanted to show how I thought it should be done and ask for advice as to how things might be improved.
The site is here: Princess 42 for sale
I was worried at the time that my post would come across as being arrogant and I nearly didn't post it. I'm glad I did because it's now into it's 7th page and I've had some great advice as to little changes. Things like putting a description under each photo for instance.
What do the collective Pistonheads massiv think? Any other ideas which are relatively easy to implement. I'm going to re photograph the master cabin. At the time Mrs Henry-F had hidden the proper bed cover, well I say hidden - put it in the last place any sane human being would look but apparently I was just being thick
The other question I've asked is what people feel about charging a nominal £100 or so for a sea trial. Traditionally to get a sea trial you are supposed to pony up a 10% deposit on the basis it's only refundable on detection of fairly significant shortcomings during the trial. Within reason I'm quite relaxed about popping out for half an hour to show everything works but I don' fancy entertaining people out on a casual family outing, or someone wanting to check a Princess 42 flybridge isn't for them prior to going off and buying something else.
If need be I'm happy to refund the £100 on completion although given the boat's value I'm not sure the odd £100 is going to make much difference!
I've had mixed thoughts on the motor boat forum so what do you guys think ?
Thanks in advance for your collective input.
Henry
I posted up a link to a little micro site I'd done to host photos and details of our boat which we are selling in order to upgrade to a larger model within the Princess flybridge range. I wanted to show how I thought it should be done and ask for advice as to how things might be improved.
The site is here: Princess 42 for sale
I was worried at the time that my post would come across as being arrogant and I nearly didn't post it. I'm glad I did because it's now into it's 7th page and I've had some great advice as to little changes. Things like putting a description under each photo for instance.
What do the collective Pistonheads massiv think? Any other ideas which are relatively easy to implement. I'm going to re photograph the master cabin. At the time Mrs Henry-F had hidden the proper bed cover, well I say hidden - put it in the last place any sane human being would look but apparently I was just being thick
The other question I've asked is what people feel about charging a nominal £100 or so for a sea trial. Traditionally to get a sea trial you are supposed to pony up a 10% deposit on the basis it's only refundable on detection of fairly significant shortcomings during the trial. Within reason I'm quite relaxed about popping out for half an hour to show everything works but I don' fancy entertaining people out on a casual family outing, or someone wanting to check a Princess 42 flybridge isn't for them prior to going off and buying something else.
If need be I'm happy to refund the £100 on completion although given the boat's value I'm not sure the odd £100 is going to make much difference!
I've had mixed thoughts on the motor boat forum so what do you guys think ?
Thanks in advance for your collective input.
Henry
Nothing valuable to add i'm afraid, However I was looking at these at the Boat show on Sunday, and Princess are very nice, Your one is lovely, I don't think anyone seriously/vaguely interested in purchasing your one would quibble at a £500/£1000 deposit to go for a sea trial, let alone a mesasely £100
Good luck with the sale
Good luck with the sale
I operate in a very different market to you (much smaller and cheaper) but when it came to sales time I cleaned the boat up and took it to the best broker on the waterway. They jetwashed the outside, took the photos and blurb and marketing and put it on their website. They also did the viewings and test drive. It sold 48 hours later for just 3% below the asking price, they did all the legalities etc and sent me a cheque. Had I advertised it myself for the same price, I just know it wouldn't have sold - at least not before winter.
So if you sell it yourself you may save broker's fees but you have to put all the work in yourself, and even then it probably won't sell so fast because (in my market at least) boats being sold privately just don't command the prices they do at brokers.
Back to yours - I certainly wouldn't charge for a half-hour sea trial. You also need to factor a survey into the schedule and be prepared for the buyer to use the report as a negotiating tool.
I think your website looks smart and clear and the boat looks exquisite. The text comes across as a slightly over-personal essay but that's your style. Beam, draft and air draft would be helpful. The interior photos are slightly off for white balance and the vertical ones don't fit my monitor but you're not selling photography and it wouldn't deter me from buying the boat, which seems to be much bigger inside than outside!
If you want a quick sale consider a broker; if you want to hold out for top money then you'll need to put the effort in yourself and be patient I think.
Well that's my 4p FWIW, might be miles out but hey ho!
So if you sell it yourself you may save broker's fees but you have to put all the work in yourself, and even then it probably won't sell so fast because (in my market at least) boats being sold privately just don't command the prices they do at brokers.
Back to yours - I certainly wouldn't charge for a half-hour sea trial. You also need to factor a survey into the schedule and be prepared for the buyer to use the report as a negotiating tool.
I think your website looks smart and clear and the boat looks exquisite. The text comes across as a slightly over-personal essay but that's your style. Beam, draft and air draft would be helpful. The interior photos are slightly off for white balance and the vertical ones don't fit my monitor but you're not selling photography and it wouldn't deter me from buying the boat, which seems to be much bigger inside than outside!
If you want a quick sale consider a broker; if you want to hold out for top money then you'll need to put the effort in yourself and be patient I think.
Well that's my 4p FWIW, might be miles out but hey ho!
Thanks for that.
The dimensions and capacities are actually in one of the photos, I photographed the original brochure for layout and dimensions.
I didn't specifically build the site to bypass a broker, more to compliment their efforts. Princess are a bit limited in their brokerage. Princess.com has no links to actual boats for sale, you have to go to Princess.co.uk Once there the presentation is formulaic and only has a few small photos. You don't go on their site and drool over pictures of the boat you're looking at which I want to do when I'm buying. I haven't got it listed with Princess but expected to do so when I started out. I'm not try take food from anyone's mouth. I've already had an off the record chat with a customer (on the Porsche side) who sells boats and said I'm happy to make sure they get what's fair in the event they have a customer.
I think at this level it probably takes a little while to sell a boat though why so long I never know.
The sea trial is an interesting one. I think the answer is to take each approach on it's own merit. If after a few goes you get the sense people are taking the P you act accordingly.
Henry
The dimensions and capacities are actually in one of the photos, I photographed the original brochure for layout and dimensions.
I didn't specifically build the site to bypass a broker, more to compliment their efforts. Princess are a bit limited in their brokerage. Princess.com has no links to actual boats for sale, you have to go to Princess.co.uk Once there the presentation is formulaic and only has a few small photos. You don't go on their site and drool over pictures of the boat you're looking at which I want to do when I'm buying. I haven't got it listed with Princess but expected to do so when I started out. I'm not try take food from anyone's mouth. I've already had an off the record chat with a customer (on the Porsche side) who sells boats and said I'm happy to make sure they get what's fair in the event they have a customer.
I think at this level it probably takes a little while to sell a boat though why so long I never know.
The sea trial is an interesting one. I think the answer is to take each approach on it's own merit. If after a few goes you get the sense people are taking the P you act accordingly.
Henry
Agree on the quality of lots of boat ads. It's as if they don't want to sell the things - the galleys tend to be the worst offenders - you often see sinks full of debris, half empty bottles of squash and cooking oil, cloths shoved into a corner, etc.
We know we are not buying a new boat, but at least make an effort to make us think we are!
OP - the only improvement I can suggest to your ad is to have some sunbathing young ladies.
We know we are not buying a new boat, but at least make an effort to make us think we are!
OP - the only improvement I can suggest to your ad is to have some sunbathing young ladies.
Edited by Ayahuasca on Wednesday 18th January 16:51
I think your website is very good, there is defo a link between seller effort and making a sale as you well know. Presentation is very important.
Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
Huntsman said:
I think your website is very good, there is defo a link between seller effort and making a sale as you well know. Presentation is very important.
Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
I would have thought that an offer of 90% of the asking price was fair.Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
A boat is worth what you can get for it!
k me times are hard in the used car business.Huntsman said:
I think your website is very good, there is defo a link between seller effort and making a sale as you well know. Presentation is very important.
Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
It's on the ApolloDuck site, went on last night and they do allow a link. To be fair they allow quite a lot of photos on their own site. It's a bit awkward to navigate around and I'll have a bit of a tidy up of the advert on there when I get a moment. Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
You realise just how lovely and clean the Pistonheads classified adverts are when you go elsewhere !
Henry
I'm in the market Henry, although I wasn't looking at Flybridges...
Seriously though, I'm amazed at how lousy most pictures on boat adverts are, or even non existent. Your mini web site looks great and is most informative. Looks a loverly boat in great condition. If I had a bit more dosh, I wouldn't object to paying £100 for a sea trial, but need my 'ship' to come in before I'm in that market. Good luck with a trouble free sale.
Henry-F said:
... or how any offers they had received had been low and insulting.
...so how does £100k sound? I'll take it without the sea trial.Seriously though, I'm amazed at how lousy most pictures on boat adverts are, or even non existent. Your mini web site looks great and is most informative. Looks a loverly boat in great condition. If I had a bit more dosh, I wouldn't object to paying £100 for a sea trial, but need my 'ship' to come in before I'm in that market. Good luck with a trouble free sale.
Bacardi said:
I'm in the market Henry, although I wasn't looking at Flybridges...
Nothing a panel saw and some sandpaper wouldn't fix...One thing on the concept though OP - because your site contains contact info, I think brokers will be unlikely to link to it as they could be cut out of the loop.
Henry-F said:
Hi there Andy
A Princess 50 I think. The 54 is also on the radar but I think a 54 would end up being too old.
I tend to use my iPhone so the 07831 number gets ignored. I'll pm you my iPhone number
Henry
Oh no I won't you don't accept emails! Give me a buzz at work
Will give you a call when back in uk,'be good to catch up.A Princess 50 I think. The 54 is also on the radar but I think a 54 would end up being too old.
I tend to use my iPhone so the 07831 number gets ignored. I'll pm you my iPhone number
Henry
Oh no I won't you don't accept emails! Give me a buzz at work
With regards to photos,as brokers we have to work with what we have got. Many owners will not pay for a valet. Also we would rather people see the boat with warts and all so to speak as many people travel a long way to view .
The last thing you want is a over sold boat, wastes time and destroys reputations.
On a boat with value as yours carries, I would strongly advise you put it through a proper broker and the process done to BMF / MCA standard. Title and paperwork, is a issue if buyers require finance its a long process these days. Control of the funds and outstanding bills, survey, engineers report on engines is all a concern for buyers.
Trying to save a few K by not wanting to pay a broker commission could end up costing you help of a lot more and waste a lot of time.
Many brokerages will feed out to all the major top ten dealer sites such as Yachtworld, Yachtmarket etc.
Feel free to contact me, you maybe out of my geographical area but I can point you in the right direction.
The last thing you want is a over sold boat, wastes time and destroys reputations.
On a boat with value as yours carries, I would strongly advise you put it through a proper broker and the process done to BMF / MCA standard. Title and paperwork, is a issue if buyers require finance its a long process these days. Control of the funds and outstanding bills, survey, engineers report on engines is all a concern for buyers.
Trying to save a few K by not wanting to pay a broker commission could end up costing you help of a lot more and waste a lot of time.
Many brokerages will feed out to all the major top ten dealer sites such as Yachtworld, Yachtmarket etc.
Feel free to contact me, you maybe out of my geographical area but I can point you in the right direction.
Edited by Rum Runner on Wednesday 18th January 22:53
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