Red Arrows to use only 7 aircraft in 2012
Discussion
Sam_68 said:
And they want front-line female combat pilots?How long would she have lasted flying fighters in 1916 or 1940, I wonder?
Well I dont know about about 1916, 0r 1940 but women were flying in combat from 1942, both Fighter and Bombers. They were Russians, but women non the less and they did a very good job of spooking the Germans who called them the Night Witches.
America had its 1st female in front line combat duty during Desert Storm with Lt Col Martha McSally flying over 100 combat hrs in a Warthog.
Prior to her, other female pilots were flying Helicoptors in the combat zone, the 1st female pilot killed in action was a chinnook pilot
More recently there have been a number of female Apache Pilots and I would be suprised if Gulf 2, Afghanistan & Libya did not see women flying fast jets in front line combat roles.
I would guess that even in peace time there has been Male Pilots that have asked to be removed from flying duties because their head was not in the right place.
So for all the above, I reckon Sam & Simpo are talking Pish!
Simpo Two said:
Sam makes infinite sense in every post, and if you can't see it I'm sorry but you need to recalibrate your brains.
No, he's talking utter shyte, and so are you.I have no doubt that the pilot in question is still more than capable of safely doing things with an aeroplane which would turn you two into mewling, puking, double incontinents in about 10 seconds flat, but if you lose confidence in the aircraft, the safety systems and arguably the whole system, then the correct, professional course of action is to get out of the game.
Frankly, the stuff Sam_68 is spewing out provides far more insight into his own inadequacies than anything else.
egor110 said:
Simpo are you saying they picked a red arrows pilot who has no front line experince, who just happens to be a woman?
I'm not bringing sex into it all. I'm seeing her as a top fighter-pilot, which is what I understood all Red Arrows pilots to be. If she was selected for other reasons (eg for being female) then that is the fault of the selection panel, not her. tank slapper said:
It is a long time since we put people up against the wall and shot them for cowardice when they suffered mental problems. I would have hoped that people would have similarly moved on, but the same old ignorance and misunderstanding rears its head yet again.
You lurch to a silly extreme. But do you propose that front line fighting personnel can simply take a few days off when it all gets a bit much? Bedazzled said:
Female pilots have already proved themselves more than capable in front-line combat... Lydia Litvyak and Yekaterina Budanova were aces in WWII, each with a dozen victories.
Spot on, and you can be sure they didn't need six months off after seeing a comrade killed.This is not an issue of sex, which most posters here seem to be blinded by. It is a question of having the right kind of person in the job, and someone who fellow pilots can rely on if and when their peacetime job turns nasty.
eharding said:
if you lose confidence in the aircraft, the safety systems and arguably the whole system, then the correct, professional course of action is to get out of the game.
Yes. But you wonder how she got that far.eharding said:
would turn you two into mewling, puking, double incontinents in about 10 seconds flat
Quite possibly, but that does not necessarily make us wrong. Thought you were better than a cheap thrower of insults Ed.Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 4th March 22:35
Sam_68 said:
And they want front-line female combat pilots?Simpo Two said:
Sam makes infinite sense in every post, and if you can't see it I'm sorry but you need to recalibrate your brains.
Simpo Two said:
This is not an issue of sex, which most posters here seem to be blinded by.
right...Simpo Two said:
eharding said:
would turn you two into mewling, puking, double incontinents in about 10 seconds flat
Quite possibly, but that does not necessarily make us wrong. Thought you were better than a cheap thrower of insults Ed.In light of the information supplied by Condor it would seem that this pilot should not have been in that position. As I said, it is not the pilot's fault but the people who put them there. I suspect she was a token female in a misplaced gesture of political correctness that has proved a failure.
Anyway, the general consensus seems to be that she is a poor helpless girlie and that all fighter pilots can have a few months off when they feel like it.
I'm out-voted, I lose.
Carry on.
Anyway, the general consensus seems to be that she is a poor helpless girlie and that all fighter pilots can have a few months off when they feel like it.
I'm out-voted, I lose.
Carry on.
I never knew there was a female RA pilot - gutted I haven't seen a display with her in it. Having been a lifelong fan of the team and having some idea of just how intense it is to get there, it is impossible for her position within the team to have been anything less than fully deserved.
tontoro said:
It's not about sex though, don't forget that point.
Please try to understand.1) If the pilot was a man my views would have been exactly the same - namely that you can't have fighter pilots taking months off work when a comrade is killed.
2) In this case I suspect that the pilot was in that aircraft for the wrong reasons.
Hmmm.
Some pretty offensive comments, rumour & innuendo from Internet warriors about someone they don't know, doing a job they know nothing about and which they know they could never do.
She did the job because she was good enough to, nothing else. Her reaction and actions were entirely understandable and even courageous, in my opinion. Give her a break......
Some pretty offensive comments, rumour & innuendo from Internet warriors about someone they don't know, doing a job they know nothing about and which they know they could never do.
She did the job because she was good enough to, nothing else. Her reaction and actions were entirely understandable and even courageous, in my opinion. Give her a break......
tontoro said:
In one post you say that she is a token, and not good enough to be a Red Arrow on her own merits, and in the very next you say that her being female is irrelevant.
Make up your mind. (I think your mind is made up, but you are embarrassed by it)
You have reached your own (unstated) conclusion by assuming my points are mutually exclusive. If you think a little deeper you will see they are not.Make up your mind. (I think your mind is made up, but you are embarrassed by it)
I may be right but I'm outnumbered in this battle and Sam's f
ked off so like any wise combatant I'm going home 
If you insist on digging yourself into an ever deeper hole consider that:
Simpo Two said:
1) If the pilot was a man my views would have been exactly the same - namely that you can't have fighter pilots taking months off work when a comrade is killed.
The safety standards required of RAFAT are - whether stated or not - considerably higher than those on a line squadron. Close formation aerobatics is one of the most demanding disciplines there is, and every aircraft you add to the formation multiplies the complexity on a non-linear fashion - you simply can't afford someone on the team who for whatever reason isn't 100% focussed. This isn't wartime - this is about high performance jet aerobatics in close proximity to tens of thousands of people. If someone has a problem, then they stop flying.Simpo Two said:
2) In this case I suspect that the pilot was in that aircraft for the wrong reasons.
We can see that. What you have to ask yourself is whether that is a result of informed opinion, or your own hangups.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff