Nimrod Pics

[Dixie68]

I was sorting through my photos of my RAF days and thought these Nimrod pics may interest some people. Apologies for the lack of quality, but these were taken in the days of film and a shoddy point and click camera.

Seeb Airfield, Muscat, Oman. XV230, the Nimrod that was to later explode mid-air over Afghanistan. I must have flown to dozens of places in this airframe. The fuel bins are in place because the extreme heat of the desert would cause the fuel in the wings to expand and the blow-off valves would operate if it had been slightly over-fuelled:


RAF Gibraltar, during a refuel:


RAF Gibraltar again. XV231, now on permanent display at Manchester airport:


And again with the Rock in the background. XV251 - this was one of the Nimrods sent for the upgrade. It was upgraded and then scrapped before re-entering service. This is what happens when Whitehall mandarins make military decisions:


Radome of XV241 (this Nimrod is now scrapped):


Closer to the refuel. Note the high-tech hoses and bins to catch spillage/overflow:


This is XV244 at an air display at Norfolk Naval Base, Virginia, USA. XV244 is the last remaining Nimrod at RAF Kinloss and I hear it's been saved from the scrapyard to become a museum piece. God that makes me feel old!:


Still Norfolk Base, standing on the port wing:


...and now the view from atop the starboard wing:


RAF Fairford during a RIAT in the 90s. We'd just waved the Nimrod off to do its display and were sitting down to lunch when we got an emergency callout and had to run back to the pan to see it back in. If you look closely at the front of the pod the crewchief is sitting on you'll see why. The pilot taxied it into the back of a runway sweeper, destroying the Loral pod. Oops:

[Eric Mc]

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

Nice pictures though.

Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 20th March 18:31

[King Herald]

Just reading on the RAF Cosford Facebook page they have received a Nimrod, in pieces. Should be on display sometime soon I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/rafmuseumcosford

[Dixie68]

King Herald said:

Just reading on the RAF Cosford Facebook page they have received a Nimrod, in pieces. Should be on display sometime soon I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/rafmuseumcosford

It comes as a bit of a shock that an aircraft I spent a large part of my career on is now a museum piece.

[marky1]

Interesting, two places I have lived, Muscat and Gibraltar. I must follow you around!

[PaulG40]

Nice pics!

[tim0409]

Great pics - My dad worked in Oman on Defenders (BN Islanders) and he used to talk about Seeb so it brings back memories of his storys when he was home on leave.

[Seeker UK]

Eric Mc said:

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

The decision to scrap Nimrod was a political decision made by elected MPs, not civil servants.

[martin mrt]

Seeker UK said:

Eric Mc said:

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

The decision to scrap Nimrod was a political decision made by elected MPs, not civil servants.

It was a political decision made by elected idiots, AKA MPs

[andymadmak]

Seeker UK said:

Eric Mc said:

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

The decision to scrap Nimrod was a political decision made by elected MPs, not civil servants.

As a matter of interest how much longer and how much more money would you have given BAE to get Nimrod working?

[Eric Mc]

Seeker UK said:

Eric Mc said:

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

The decision to scrap Nimrod was a political decision made by elected MPs, not civil servants.

Often on the advice of Senior Civil servants. Politicians need data to make these decisions. Who provides that data?

You might be surprised to learn how much this country is actually run by the Senior Civil Servants of The Treasury. NOTHING happens in the UK without Treasury approval.

[Dixie68]

andymadmak said:

As a matter of interest how much longer and how much more money would you have given BAE to get Nimrod working?

I personally would've kept the Nimrod as it was, it was already the best MPA in the world and we were constantly updating the avionics.

[Yertis]

Dixie68 said:

I personally would've kept the Nimrod as it was, it was already the best MPA in the world and we were constantly updating the avionics.

But with the safety issues addressed.

I don't understand MoD procurement at all. If I have a client that comes up with a spec that stretches capability and budget we tell them "great, we'll plan for that in outline, but since there isn't the money or time to build that yet let's build what we can, on the basis we can retrofit and enhance as and when it's possible to do so." The art of the possible in other words, better to have 75% of what you want than nothing at all. MoD policy seems to be to spec everything to beyond the limits of current capability, so projects like MRA4 or F35B have little chance of ever succeeding.

[baldy1926]

I will have to dig out some pics of a nimrod landing at mph. It was the 1st aircraft to land at the airport.

[Seeker UK]

Eric Mc said:

Seeker UK said:

Eric Mc said:

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

The decision to scrap Nimrod was a political decision made by elected MPs, not civil servants.

Often on the advice of Senior Civil servants. Politicians need data to make these decisions. Who provides that data?

In normal circumstances, you would be correct. However, the decision to scrap Nimrod, like Harrier was political, not based on requirements and were taken DESPITE Civil Service / single service chiefs advice.

Eric Mc said:

You might be surprised to learn how much this country is actually run by the Senior Civil Servants of The Treasury. NOTHING happens in the UK without Treasury approval.

As a Civil Servant, I am fully aware of how things work in Whitehall. Trust me, in this current economic climate, The Treasury do not approve / cut anything without direction from the PM or, more likely, The Chancellor.

[Lost soul]

Seeker UK said:

Eric Mc said:

Seeker UK said:

Eric Mc said:

Isn't it the Whitehall mandarins who make ALL decisions of this nature.

The decision to scrap Nimrod was a political decision made by elected MPs, not civil servants.

Often on the advice of Senior Civil servants. Politicians need data to make these decisions. Who provides that data?

In normal circumstances, you would be correct. However, the decision to scrap Nimrod, like Harrier was political, not based on requirements and were taken DESPITE Civil Service / single service chiefs advice.

Eric Mc said:

You might be surprised to learn how much this country is actually run by the Senior Civil Servants of The Treasury. NOTHING happens in the UK without Treasury approval.

As a Civil Servant, I am fully aware of how things work in Whitehall. Trust me, in this current economic climate, The Treasury do not approve / cut anything without direction from the PM or, more likely, The Chancellor.

So its all your fault , or do you just make the tea

[Seeker UK]

Yertis said:

MoD policy seems to be to spec everything to beyond the limits of current capability, so projects like MRA4 or F35B have little chance of ever succeeding.

It's because in the past, ministers and senior officers have not accepted advice like "sorry, you can't have it, no money. If you do want it, what are we not going to buy instead?"

[ralphrj]

Seeker UK said:

In normal circumstances, you would be correct. However, the decision to scrap Nimrod, like Harrier was political, not based on requirements and were taken DESPITE Civil Service / single service chiefs advice.

The RAF volunteered the cancellation of Nimrod in their submission to Phase 2 of the SDSR.

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-securi...

[Seeker UK]

ralphrj said:

Seeker UK said:

In normal circumstances, you would be correct. However, the decision to scrap Nimrod, like Harrier was political, not based on requirements and were taken DESPITE Civil Service / single service chiefs advice.

The RAF volunteered the cancellation of Nimrod in their submission to Phase 2 of the SDSR.

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-securi...

Making a submission under SDSR is not the same as wanting to get rid of it.

[ralphrj]

Seeker UK said:

ralphrj said:

Seeker UK said:

In normal circumstances, you would be correct. However, the decision to scrap Nimrod, like Harrier was political, not based on requirements and were taken DESPITE Civil Service / single service chiefs advice.

The RAF volunteered the cancellation of Nimrod in their submission to Phase 2 of the SDSR.

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-securi...

Making a submission under SDSR is not the same as wanting to get rid of it.

Perhaps but the testimony made by the Chief of Defence Materiel as well as the Senior Responsible Owner for Nimrod and Astute to the Public Accounts Committee made it clear that whilst a fully functioning Nimrod MRA4 would have been ideal there was zero expectation that one was going to be delivered within the remaining £200m budget. Furthermore, no-one was prepared to either state how much it was going to cost, when it would be delivered or even if the project could ever be delivered.

Commodore Beverstock Senior Responsible Owner for Astute and Nimrod said:

Even though we cancelled the programme, although we had 95% paid out what was approved on the programme, there were still issues to be resolved with delivering that aircraft into service. Those costs and risks were not quantified.

Bernard Gray Chief of Defence Materiel said:

I personally believe—though it is a classified issue—that the level of risk being accepted in that was an acceptable one, and it was also correctly judged. Therefore this was not a close 4-3 result; this was a 5-0 result, and I am confident the Department made the right decision. The only question would be: would you make a decision earlier? It is not in question that this was the right choice.