727 flown into the ground for research

[bob1179]

I just noticed this on the internet:

http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/channel-4-crash-passenger-p...

It appears a 727 loaded with dummies and measuring equipment has been crashed deliberately in an attempt to measure the forces on the aircraft and occupants inside in an attempt to look at survivabilty etc.

CH4 are making a documentary on it, is 'Equinox' back? Anyway, it actually looks very interesting, does anybody know anything else about this project?

[Eric Mc]

Junk article and a junk "experiment".

The title says it's a 747 - which it isn't. It's a 727.

The pilot didn't "eject". 727s don't have ejection seats. I presume he just bailed out.

And anyway, NASA conducted an experiment of this type almost 30 years ago using an old Boeing 720.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYp2aWo4TUM

[Boatbuoy]

Wow! Business Class sucks!

[S7Paul]

Waste of a nice old airliner; lovely looking things, 727s.

[MitchT]

So it finally happened then? There was a previous thread on here about it which suggested that the plan had all gone quiet.

Anyway, judging by the number of hull losses on 727s (112 of 1831 built – that’s 6.1%) – and the ropeyness of many of the airlines now flying them, couldn’t they just load the remaining ones with sensors and wait for the inevitable?

[Eric Mc]

The 727 had a highish accident rate during its first years of service )1964-66) which was put down to the fact that many of the pilots converting to the 727 were moving over from piston engined and turboprop aircraft. The 727 was their first jet airliner and many found it a bit of a handful at first.

[croyde]

Eric Mc said:

Junk article and a junk "experiment".

The title says it's a 747 - which it isn't. It's a 727.

The pilot didn't "eject". 727s don't have ejection seats. I presume he just bailed out.

And anyway, NASA conducted an experiment of this type almost 30 years ago using an old Boeing 720.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYp2aWo4TUM

Seeing those realistic looking passengers is quite chilling. Certainly not an instant way to die

[bob1179]

Eric Mc said:

The 727 had a highish accident rate during its first years of service )1964-66) which was put down to the fact that many of the pilots converting to the 727 were moving over from piston engined and turboprop aircraft. The 727 was their first jet airliner and many found it a bit of a handful at first.

I think this was the case, plus the ability of the aircraft to enter a 'deep stall' due to its 'T' tail configuration. Isn't this one of the reasons that the 'T' tail has fallen out of fashion these days?

And of course most 727s these days are operated in the third world, which is a similar case to the venerable TU-154 which is actually a wonderful aircraft when the local airlines service them properly and the pilots who fly them know what they are doing...

[bob1179]

croyde said:

Eric Mc said:

Junk article and a junk "experiment".

The title says it's a 747 - which it isn't. It's a 727.

The pilot didn't "eject". 727s don't have ejection seats. I presume he just bailed out.

And anyway, NASA conducted an experiment of this type almost 30 years ago using an old Boeing 720.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYp2aWo4TUM

Seeing those realistic looking passengers is quite chilling. Certainly not an instant way to die

From what I recall, this test actually went a bit wrong. The 720 was supposed to hit some metal stakes as it came to 'land' on the 'runway'. The stakes were supposed to rupture the wing tanks, instead the aircraft was slightly off course and the stakes went through the engines instead causing the large fireball. The data gained however was extremely useful in recording the effects of a crash landing on the aircraft and the passengers inside.

[scubadude]

Judging by the footage not sure if you can call that a crash or a Very heavy landing? "Crash" to me implies full speed into a mountain side or vertical dive into the ground, what they've done would likely have killed many crew and some passengers but is far more survivable than many accidents you can see on Youtube where people still got out.

Be interesting to see the eventual programme and hear the thinking behind it.

[Eric Mc]

The test did go a bit wrong. The remote control was rather difficult to operate precisely and the "pilot" allowed one wing to drop just before impact. He was also slightly off course and one of the metal blades designed to slice through the wing went straight into one of the engines instead.

The other aspect of the experiment that did not go quite to plan was the testing of an anti-misting additive which was hoped would prevent a massive fire. As you can see from the footage, a fireball did erupt immediately after impact. However, the anti--misting agent did actually do its job. The fire more or less put itself out quite quickly and technicians were mopping up pools of unburnt kerosene for hours after the crash.

Regarding T-Tails, the fact that they have fallen out of favour with airliner designs has little to do with deep stall issues. It's more to do with the structural and maintenance advantages that come from wing mounted engines. T-Tails are still pretty much the popular choice for smaller jet feederliners and biz-jets.

[Turbodiesel1690]

Not much of a crash, more of a hard landing - that 727 will probably be repaired and flying in the Congo within the next couple of months

[Eric Mc]

Thank goodness Dan Air aren't around anymore. I once flew in a 727 they were using that had been bought as an insurance write off.

[MitchT]

Okay, just watched the clip. That looked more like a forced landing on an unsuitable surface than a crash. Surely if you were putting a plane down on a softer surface you’d keep the gear up to prevent it digging-in and causing exactly the kind of damage that we saw there?

[S7Paul]

Eric Mc said:

Thank goodness Dan Air aren't around anymore. I once flew in a 727 they were using that had been bought as an insurance write off.

That must have been the aircraft that featured in a documentary many years ago. Got damaged in South America, flown unpressurised to the USA where it was repaired, then put into service by Dan Dair ferrying British tourists to the Costas.

[davepoth]

bob1179 said:

Eric Mc said:

The 727 had a highish accident rate during its first years of service )1964-66) which was put down to the fact that many of the pilots converting to the 727 were moving over from piston engined and turboprop aircraft. The 727 was their first jet airliner and many found it a bit of a handful at first.

I think this was the case, plus the ability of the aircraft to enter a 'deep stall' due to its 'T' tail configuration. Isn't this one of the reasons that the 'T' tail has fallen out of fashion these days?

And of course most 727s these days are operated in the third world, which is a similar case to the venerable TU-154 which is actually a wonderful aircraft when the local airlines service them properly and the pilots who fly them know what they are doing...

727 was especially designed for "dodgy" locations - the engine location was to shield them from dirt ingestion, and of course the famous rear gangway was put in so that it could be used at airports that didn't even have a set of stairs to bring to the plane.

[Ledaig]

Eric Mc said:

Thank goodness Dan Air aren't around anymore. I once flew in a 727 they were using that had been bought as an insurance write off.

But to be fair it was only a Cat D

[Eric Mc]

S7Paul said:

Eric Mc said:

Thank goodness Dan Air aren't around anymore. I once flew in a 727 they were using that had been bought as an insurance write off.

That must have been the aircraft that featured in a documentary many years ago. Got damaged in South America, flown unpressurised to the USA where it was repaired, then put into service by Dan Dair ferrying British tourists to the Costas.

It sure was. I flew to Naples in it.

[chris333]

The damage is not so bad, it will buff out...