What family dinghy options?

[sawman]

Last summer I picked up an elderly wooden Miracle dinghy to teach the kids to sale. I knew it was a bit rough and spent a couple of weekends slopping some new varnish on and replacing some fittings so that everything worked.
We had a good few days on the water and the kids are still pretty keen. I intended to get the boat home in the autumn and spend a few weekends sorting out a few more bits and treating the old boat to a full repaint. Unfortunately, things conspired against me and I didn't get the boat in the garage til march. To make matters worse there had been standing water in the boat over the winter and tis combined with some bodged repairs at some point in the past, things didn't look too pretty.

Any way the few weekends work has now turned into a few months of weekends including bank holidays and it still isn't finished - I keep finding new bits of soft wood and lifting glass tape seams - At this point I think it would have been quicker and simpler to put a new bottom on her!

The allure of a nice plastic boat is growing one me, but plastic miracles are still pretty new and so are neither readily available or cheap. So I'm spending my days with sandpaper and epoxy resin in my hands wondering what else would fit the family sailer role.

The reason I chose the miracle was that it was cheap and local, but after sailing it with the kids, and club racing with my brother on occasion, I actually quite like it - its not that fast, but its nicely balanced and goes nicely with the kite up in a blow. Also it is light and easy to handle on the beach. It has all the equipment the kids need to master and I would imagine later this year they (Age 12 and 7) would be able to handle it well enough without me (if we ever get on the water again).

So what might fit the bill, the requirements:

low maintenance
nice to sail
similar performance to miracle
symmetrical kite - I am working on the principle that once they have learnt symmetric a more modern arrangement will be simple (worked for me anyway!)
Budget up to £1500

I am thinking a Lark might be worth a look? but I have never been in one

Cheers for any tips

s

[Marcellus]

My initial suggestion would be to see what your local sailing club has a large fleet of and buy one of those.

The reasoning being that the other members will only be too happy to help you become a better sailor with specific advice about that particular boat as opposed to generic advice which is all they could give if you have one of the only boats of that type at the club.

My second suggestion is why do you need a boat that you can sail with them?

Why not get them into something like a Feva if you want them to go double handed or probably better get them into single handers (optomists, teras, picos, qbars) and get yourself something like a laser.

You could then get the children into the kids/youth club at your local sailing club and the kids will learn a lot more a lot faster and more importantly enjoy it a lot more than "sailing with Dad".

Once they're into the sport with the club they will get a lot more further opportunities and probably be introduced into something like 29rs plus if they're any good often elder members will be prepared to lend the chidren boats to sail.

Certainly this is what works well at our club, we rarely advocate Dad sailing/learning with their children and great friendships are formed by the children who move through various fleets and get loans of things like Cherubs, foiling moths, lasers, 29rs etc etc.

[sawman]

Cheers buddy,

The most numerous class at my club is flying 15, followed by GP14, there are few mirrors and a couple miracles, and then teh rest are mixed one designs. I absolutely agree with your logic, although I have a bit of an aversion to fevas and a flying 15 is not really where I want to go. I suppose the easy option would be GP14.

At the moment the kids don't seem too keen on a formal sailing course, they are happier to sail with me.I am pretty comfortable teaching them, having sailed a variety of dinghies over the last 30 years, to a fairly high level.

We typically 3 up in the miracle, or occasionally they will choose to take turns. I expect that once they get a bit of confidence under their belt they will be off in an oppie or topper, but I am keen for them to learn all aspects of traditional boat handling at the outset - hence the symmetric spinny.

[Marcellus]

In which Case I'd go for the GP14, good allround boats and can perform quite well if sailed correctly.

[sawman]

Marcellus said:

In which Case I'd go for the GP14, good allround boats and can perform quite well if sailed correctly.

I'm just not that struck on them, I sailed them years ago.

I hope to get the miracle on the water by the end of the month and we will see what the summer brings. I'll keep my eye out for locally available replacements.

[Marcellus]

I raced GP14 many years ago and they can be OK.... not the most exciting of boats but give a good platform to sit on...

[chrisga]

Depending what you priority is of course Marcellus has given good advice. But please remember that it is fine to sail what YOU want, even if there are no other boats of the same class in your club. Most class associations have websites now with huge amounts of advice and tips available. If you are just cruising with your kids then it matters not one jot if there are no other boats of the same class, and you will have a more pleasurable experience sailing something that is right for you, rather than sailing something second rate just because others do. If you want to race, it also should not matter if you are the only example of your class in your club as they should offer a handicap fleet where you can race other classes of boat.

GP's are nice steady boats, but I would suggest are quite heavy to move round with yourself and young children. Is your club dinghy park on a slope? Is it coastal, on a beach?

Other suggestions I have are:

420 - seen as youth racing boat but may suit
Graduate - though no spinnaker
Kestrel - may be heavy
Lark - can be seen as tippy
Classic Merlin Rocket - new ones very tippy but older ones may be more suited
Scorpion - can be a bit racey
Wanderer - may be too heavy
X1 riverboat - new class so not many second hand boats hence will be pricey

If prepared to not limit yourself to symmetrical spinnaker boats, there are a variety of asymmetric family boats you could try out too. Laser 2000 for example.

Sounds like the miracle fits your bill though so could be worth keeping an eye out for a newer one in all the usual places such as:

http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.com/listings.pht...
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/community/classif...
http://www.miracledinghy.org/for_sale_andwanted.ht...

Edited by chrisga on Tuesday 5th June 11:19

[blueg33]

If you want to race make sure you get a "one design" others like a Merlin Rocket won't be competitive if you get an old boat as the desin is allowed to evolve. Although I have always loved Merlin Rockets.

I am not up tp speed on modern boats, but I learnt in my dads Firefly, quite rare now, 12ft long, tender and pretty fast for its day. It certainly punished mistakes

[sawman]

chrisga said:

Depending what you priority is of course Marcellus has given good advice. But please remember that it is fine to sail what YOU want, even if there are no other boats of the same class in your club. Most class associations have websites now with huge amounts of advice and tips available. If you are just cruising with your kids then it matters not one jot if there are no other boats of the same class, and you will have a more pleasurable experience sailing something that is right for you, rather than sailing something second rate just because others do. If you want to race, it also should not matter if you are the only example of your class in your club as they should offer a handicap fleet where you can race other classes of boat.

GP's are nice steady boats, but I would suggest are quite heavy to move round with yourself and young children. Is your club dinghy park on a slope? Is it coastal, on a beach?

Other suggestions I have are:

420 - seen as youth racing boat but may suit
Graduate - though no spinnaker
Kestrel - may be heavy
Lark - can be seen as tippy
Classic Merlin Rocket - new ones very tippy but older ones may be more suited
Scorpion - can be a bit racey
Wanderer - may be too heavy
X1 riverboat - new class so not many second hand boats hence will be pricey

If prepared to not limit yourself to symmetrical spinnaker boats, there are a variety of asymmetric family boats you could try out too. Laser 2000 for example.

Sounds like the miracle fits your bill though so could be worth keeping an eye out for a newer one in all the usual places such as:

http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.com/listings.pht...
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/community/classif...
http://www.miracledinghy.org/for_sale_andwanted.ht...

Edited by chrisga on Tuesday 5th June 11:19

Yes, like I said GP14 would be a simple option, but I never really gelled with them, I used to team race and occasionally we used GPs. I much preferred ents and fireflys

420 is a good call, I'd forgotten those
I have spent many years in Kestrels, and may return to that fleet when kids are bigger.
I didnt know larks were tippy
I sailed a wanderer once, it didnt feel very lively
Like the kestrel, I think the scorpion might be a possibly next step boat.

We sail on a reservoir, the slipway can be quite lengthy at times of the year, so on shore handling is a consideration, as the kids seem to disappear as soon as a slipway drag is needed!

My brother has an RS 200 so we might have a go with that over the summer at some point

Safe to say I will keep an eye on the classifieds

Edited by sawman on Tuesday 5th June 13:22

[chrisga]

Compared to a 49er/moth/rs800 a lark probably wouldnt be considered tippy. However, compared to a miracle, possibly because of the lack of chines I've heard that the lark can be a bit rolly on runs for example. Fine if you're doing your racing as you might expect to get wet but something to look out for if taking the kids out I guess.
As with everything if you can get a test sail in any of the classes you might be looking at you couldd choose the most suitable for your needs. Which lake do you sail on?

[sawman]

chrisga said:

Compared to a 49er/moth/rs800 a lark probably wouldnt be considered tippy. However, compared to a miracle, possibly because of the lack of chines I've heard that the lark can be a bit rolly on runs for example. Fine if you're doing your racing as you might expect to get wet but something to look out for if taking the kids out I guess.
As with everything if you can get a test sail in any of the classes you might be looking at you couldd choose the most suitable for your needs. Which lake do you sail on?

fair do's.

I once borrowed a laser2, someone said they were a bit tippy - I thought Pah, but they were right, every time I moved I fell in/off it.

I sail at Derwent res these days (or at least will when the boat is mended!)

[Shoestringracer]

I realise it is asymetric but I would consider an RS400 - tough but fast, reasonably spacious, easy to sail well enough but very competitive class should you wish to go more serious. Plenty about.

[b14]

RS400 probably a little racy for a family dinghy and you'll struggle to find one in one piece for £1500. The GP14 has got to be the best option. Failing that I'd go for a Lark which is a lovely boat (a little tippy but just leave the board down downwind) or a Wayfarer if you can find one for that money.

[Marcellus]

what about the RS200?

[sawman]

Marcellus said:

what about the RS200?

I do have access to an RS 200, but I'd like to get the kids up to speed with a trad kite.

[sawman]

b14 said:

RS400 probably a little racy for a family dinghy and you'll struggle to find one in one piece for £1500. The GP14 has got to be the best option. Failing that I'd go for a Lark which is a lovely boat (a little tippy but just leave the board down downwind) or a Wayfarer if you can find one for that money.

I have been looking at the classifieds, seems like a fairly well kitted plastic GP can be had within budget, But I do prefer the prospect of a lark. I rejected the wayfarer on grounds of the on the beach heaviness.

Of course what may happen is that the kids get heavily into sailing this summer and end up in oppies and toppers, and I will just be left on the beach as a trolley dolly!

[Shoestringracer]

b14 said:

RS400 probably a little racy for a family dinghy and you'll struggle to find one in one piece for £1500. The GP14 has got to be the best option. Failing that I'd go for a Lark which is a lovely boat (a little tippy but just leave the board down downwind) or a Wayfarer if you can find one for that money.

Sorry. I meant RS200

[b14]

sawman said:

I have been looking at the classifieds, seems like a fairly well kitted plastic GP can be had within budget, But I do prefer the prospect of a lark. I rejected the wayfarer on grounds of the on the beach heaviness.

Of course what may happen is that the kids get heavily into sailing this summer and end up in oppies and toppers, and I will just be left on the beach as a trolley dolly!

It's a good problem to have!

To be honest the Lark isn't very tippy at all in relative stakes - my username indicates what I sail, which is a margin more tippy than most! The Lark can be had cheap so you could buy a beater at first and then upgrade later if it works for you (you won't lose any money off the first boat I don't think).

Go for it

[chrisga]

Good choice B!... This is mine:


IMG_1341 by chrisga, on Flickr

[jains15]

blueg33 said:

If you want to race make sure you get a "one design" others like a Merlin Rocket won't be competitive if you get an old boat as the desin is allowed to evolve. Although I have always loved Merlin Rockets.

Yes Merlins for the win. I loved mine but it was a money pit and a time sink. Absolutely loved it though what a beast. Always got comments wherever I went with it (positive ones)