HMS Queen Elizabeth

[ninja-lewis]

This gives a rough idea what it would have liked:

[rhinochopig]

ninja-lewis said:

This gives a rough idea what it would have liked:

Without the aircraft obviously

[PugwasHDJ80]

rhinochopig said:

ninja-lewis said:

This gives a rough idea what it would have liked:

Without the aircraft obviously

no- we'd have aircraft in that configuration, as there are about 30 different planes we could use......

[hidetheelephants]

doogz said:

PugwasHDJ80 said:

no- we'd have aircraft in that configuration, as there are about 30 different planes we could use......

Sell the second ship to the French on the cheap, since they backed out of buying/building one way back in the day, in exchange for a bunch of Rafales?

Presumably we could then order a third now we know how to do it, and minus the 'Gordon Brown' surcharge would be a good bit cheaper and quicker to build?

[Lincsblokey]

Given that Prince Of Wales is still only in Lego form, how hard would it be to modify it for Cat/trap config?

[Riff Raff]

Lincsblokey said:

Given that Prince Of Wales is still only in Lego form, how hard would it be to modify it for Cat/trap config?

It might be in Lego form, but the contracts that have been signed assume no catapults. If you start messing around with the specifications at this point in time, I suspect we'll have another Defence Procurement Fiasco on our hands. Assuming of course that where we are at the moment isn't already a DPF.............

[Dr Jekyll]

Lincsblokey said:

Given that Prince Of Wales is still only in Lego form, how hard would it be to modify it for Cat/trap config?

The cost for cat/trap on both carriers was estimated at £2 billion if that's any help, I don't know if doing just POW was considered.

[IanMorewood]

Until the electronic catapults and arrestors actually work on a ship converting PoW to a cats and traps configuration is still a blank cheque book job.

Would be cheaper to buy a large freighter rip the upperworks off and stick a couple of big steam engines (high pressure steam like in a new A1) inside the forward hold and deck the lot over with some reinforced concrete. I'm sure there's at least half a dozen Buccaneers dotted about the UK that could be airworthy within short order and of course there's the three that Thunder City operated and recently tried to sell. Ask the Yanks nicely and we could probably have half a dozen f18a/c to work in a fleet defence roll for not a lot. So carrier sorted, steam sorted, fixed wing sorted, Merlin AEW coming soon, job jobed. A twenty first century escort carrier needing a crew smaller than a minesweeper (obviously not including airmen).

[hidetheelephants]

IanMorewood said:

Until the electronic catapults and arrestors actually work on a ship converting PoW to a cats and traps configuration is still a blank cheque book job.

Would be cheaper to buy a large freighter rip the upperworks off and stick a couple of big steam engines (high pressure steam like in a new A1) inside the forward hold and deck the lot over with some reinforced concrete. I'm sure there's at least half a dozen Buccaneers dotted about the UK that could be airworthy within short order and of course there's the three that Thunder City operated and recently tried to sell. Ask the Yanks nicely and we could probably have half a dozen f18a/c to work in a fleet defence roll for not a lot. So carrier sorted, steam sorted, fixed wing sorted, Merlin AEW coming soon, job jobed. A twenty first century escort carrier needing a crew smaller than a minesweeper (obviously not including airmen).

If you ask Maersk nicely they might sell a couple of their B class container ships; they can do 30 kts.

[Godalmighty83]

Worth noting that even though the PoW is in Lego form each of those blocks are mostly fitted out with the various wiring, piping and fitments they will use so even at this stage any change would be an immense undertaking.

[rhinochopig]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

rhinochopig said:

ninja-lewis said:

This gives a rough idea what it would have liked:

Without the aircraft obviously

no- we'd have aircraft in that configuration, as there are about 30 different planes we could use......

No need - artists impression of QE's new role will be until the planes are ready. The track-day fees will be used to pay for the aircraft.



[shamelessly stolen from the ani-gifs thread]

[FourWheelDrift]

doogz said:

Godalmighty83 said:

Worth noting that even though the PoW is in Lego form each of those blocks are mostly fitted out with the various wiring, piping and fitments they will use so even at this stage any change would be an immense undertaking.

It would involve hacking the centre blocks apart to fit the boilers.

Best call in the DIY SOS team then

[PugwasHDJ80]

doogz said:

Godalmighty83 said:

Worth noting that even though the PoW is in Lego form each of those blocks are mostly fitted out with the various wiring, piping and fitments they will use so even at this stage any change would be an immense undertaking.

It would involve hacking the centre blocks apart to fit the boilers.

wouldn't the plan be to go with electro-magnetic accelerators?

[Godalmighty83]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

wouldn't the plan be to go with electro-magnetic accelerators?

Yep, one of the reasons why the ship is entirely electric drive, the power would come from the generators and if memory serves the UK did buy a pair of EMALS just before the switch back.

[MartG]

Godalmighty83 said:

Yep, one of the reasons why the ship is entirely electric drive, the power would come from the generators and if memory serves the UK did buy a pair of EMALS just before the switch back.

IIRC we didn't actually buy one, but the manufacturer had reserved the next off the production line for us. They ( General Atomic ) also expressed surprise at the cost BAe quoted for it, and even offered to underwrite any overrun from what they reckoned it should cost.

[PugwasHDJ80]

doogz said:

Godalmighty83 said:

PugwasHDJ80 said:

wouldn't the plan be to go with electro-magnetic accelerators?

Yep, one of the reasons why the ship is entirely electric drive, the power would come from the generators and if memory serves the UK did buy a pair of EMALS just before the switch back.

It's not one of the reasons, the drive system was decided upon years and years ago, long before EMALS was an option. It only became a potential option fairly recently. The electric drive is much more to do with survivability.

EMALS also has some slightly different power requirements, it wouldn't just be a case of bolting it to the flightdeck and plugging it in.

get out, surely it just needs a few M10s and a 13amp socket?

[Mr Sparkle]

How much power is needed? Would it need another generator/engine?

[FourWheelDrift]

[davepoth]

FourWheelDrift said:

You'd need a lot of burly men to pull those back though. Maybe one of these instead?

[Talksteer]

doogz said:

Mr Sparkle said:

How much power is needed? Would it need another generator/engine?

Not sure on exact figures, but I'll post this:

"EMALS is a design feature of the Ford-class carrier.[13] Such a launch system was also considered as a retrofit for carriers of the Nimitz class aircraft carriers, but was not workable due to the high electrical power requirements of the EMALS catapults, requirements that the two Westinghouse A4W reactors on board the ships of this class could not provide."

I doubt very much it is an issue of reactor thermal power being insufficient. The electromechanical catapults should be more efficient than a steam one so shouldn't require more thermal power from the reactor.

The electrical systems are driven by a turbo generator which runs off the secondary steam system. It's this system which would be totally undersized to power the catapults especially as the electrical systems in the rest of the ship will have increased in power beyond what the original designers had planned for.

There would be significant issues in fitting a larger turbo generator into the existing machinery spaces especially as the existing systems work fairly effectively.

I would be very surprised however if the last 4 Nimitz class don't end up with the system in their complex overhaul in the mid 2020s. By that time the steam catapult will be the rare legacy system.