Cirrus Aircraft
Discussion
I know there are a few Private Pilots on here
Anyone else been lusting after a Cirrus? This is a game changer compared to legacy Pipers & Cessnas. You can carry 4 adults AND full fuel unlike most 4 seater GA aircraft
Fairly well equipped (it's got a GNS 530) Cessna 172 cockpit:-
Cirrus cockpit:-
Yum yum - game changer!
Anyone else been lusting after a Cirrus? This is a game changer compared to legacy Pipers & Cessnas. You can carry 4 adults AND full fuel unlike most 4 seater GA aircraft
Fairly well equipped (it's got a GNS 530) Cessna 172 cockpit:-
Cirrus cockpit:-
Yum yum - game changer!
Eric Mc said:
I hear they have problems on grass strips - which can be a bit of a restriction on their use.
Partly true which is what I think the Alan Sugar comment above refers to.I believe the followng is true (although I've never flown a Cirrus so wouldn't want to put money on it)
They have a castoring nosewheel unlike Pipers and Cessnas whose on the ground steering is via the nosewheel.
This means on wet grass there is a risk of wheel shimmy which can cause a problem.
I am friendly with a regular Cirrus pilot and he told me that the general instruction is to avoid grass strips. That would be enough to put me off buying a particular light aircraft. Once in the air, they are great however. They are fast and responsive - certainly compared to the more "normal" Cessna 150/152s and PA28s I've had the opportunity to handle in the air.
I'd be interested to know what the speeds are on approach. The stall speed on the Arrow I had a share in was 55 knots, the SR22 is 60 knots so only 5 knots faster. Unless the safety margin for speed on finals is greater than 5 knots for the Cirrus then can't see why it should land that much faster.
From a mate who does a fair amount of punting about in an SR22 when he's in Southern Africa - loves the performance in stupidly high density altitude, but still prefers a 182 or 210 for hooning about in the rough - the main problem is it runs out of elevator authority in the flare with the power at idle, resulting in an abrupt arrival. The solution is to leave a dribble of power on to keep the elevator energised, but being a slippery beast that on short strips - and those are invariably grass - it means if you don't absolutely nail the numbers, or impose spot-on go-round discipline, then Cirrus meets Hedge with depressing regularity.
Hence the reason insurance premiums and excess requirements for the Cirrus, in the UK at least, are noticeably higher than for other types with an equivalent hull value.
They also burn well, particularly when full of avgas and TKS fluid, as the example that cartwheeled down the runway at Waltham a couple of years ago showed. Luckily, the only injury on that occasion was to the bloke from Cirrus who came to disarm the BRS rocket in the molten wreckage, when he gashed his head open on a Fairey Gannet that he somehow failed to notice.
eharding said:
From a mate who does a fair amount of punting about in an SR22 when he's in Southern Africa - loves the performance in stupidly high density altitude, but still prefers a 182 or 210 for hooning about in the rough - the main problem is it runs out of elevator authority in the flare with the power at idle, resulting in an abrupt arrival. The solution is to leave a dribble of power on to keep the elevator energised, but being a slippery beast that on short strips - and those are invariably grass - it means if you don't absolutely nail the numbers, or impose spot-on go-round discipline, then Cirrus meets Hedge with depressing regularity.
Hence the reason insurance premiums and excess requirements for the Cirrus, in the UK at least, are noticeably higher than for other types with an equivalent hull value.
They also burn well, particularly when full of avgas and TKS fluid, as the example that cartwheeled down the runway at Waltham a couple of years ago showed. Luckily, the only injury on that occasion was to the bloke from Cirrus who came to disarm the BRS rocket in the molten wreckage, when he gashed his head open on a Fairey Gannet that he somehow failed to notice.
Ahhh, things start to make sense now - thanks for sharingHence the reason insurance premiums and excess requirements for the Cirrus, in the UK at least, are noticeably higher than for other types with an equivalent hull value.
They also burn well, particularly when full of avgas and TKS fluid, as the example that cartwheeled down the runway at Waltham a couple of years ago showed. Luckily, the only injury on that occasion was to the bloke from Cirrus who came to disarm the BRS rocket in the molten wreckage, when he gashed his head open on a Fairey Gannet that he somehow failed to notice.
Didn't realise one had been stacked at WW
I'm going to try one out next week, so will find out for myself
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Sure, Alan Sugar wrote a couple off, but he is a moron. I have a boatload of time in various models, and unless you fail to do a modecum of research on the craft, it's a very nice, powerful and responsive bird, as easy to fly as any other.
Beautifully equipped, too.
Beautifully equipped, too.
Edited by ETOPS on Monday 20th August 20:09
subirg said:
If you check out the crash stats compared to all peers, you will soon go off the Cirrus... It is off the scale. There doesn't seem to be a concrete explanation as to why this is. Nobody knows if the problem lies with the aircraft or the pilots.
It isn't the first time a high-quality SEP with superior performance gets a reputation like that - see "Forked-Tail Doctor Killer".I don't think there is an intrinsic problem with the Cirrus airframe - the problem invariably exists between the side-stick and the seat.
I have a share in a Cirrus, not the 22 but the 20. I came the usual Cessna, Arrow route, with some experience on Saratogas and Extras.
I am quite a technical person but the thing that grabbed me initially was the fact that I had to do a 15 hour IFR conversion with a Cirrus approved instructor for Insurance purposes, but looking back I am glad I did.
The aircraft has:
• Twin Garmin 430s
• Full Auto-Pilot
• Terrain
• Traffic
• Strike Scope
• Twin MFDs. or 1 PFD and 1 MFD
• Electronic Check List
• Inbuilt Approach Charts
and the list just goes on........
Its learning how all these systems interact, most of the course is taken up of what to do if there is a malfunction. There is some general handling, of course, but that's an hour or two, most is flying approaches with MFD/PFD failing, GPS failures as well as CAPS training.
The chute is an absolute last resort, so zero viz, twin GPS failures no radio and the engine is dying because of fuel starvation, then you pull the handle, but it is an absolute last resort.
The actual flying of the aircraft is very simple and straight forward. In the 20 you can take 4 pax and fuel to tabs. Using lean assist it will burn about 8.5 GPH at 70% and the cruise is about 130-135knts. All power settings are done using % power and there is no reference to manifold pressure or prop RPM, although they are checked. The throttle has a cam system which workes the prop PRM, so it's a VP prop with FP controls.
Rotate = 65knts
Climb = 60knts
Circuit = 100knts 50% Power, 50% Flap
Base = 85knts 20-25% Power, 50% Flap
Final = 75-80knts 20-25% Power, 100% Flap
600m is our operating TODA and LDA Minima and we are not allowed to go in to grass strips for insurance reasons, although if you call them depending on the strip they will give you special dispensation. I think it's because of the weak nose leg and the distance from the prop tip to the ground.
Regarding the elevator authority, I have never had a problem. It's not really a aircraft you fly to the stall warning anyway, get your speed right and a 10 degree flare is fine, once the mains are down keep the nose up and lower it to the ground, don't just drop it as I tended to in a Cessna.
Anything else you need to know I am happy to help
I am quite a technical person but the thing that grabbed me initially was the fact that I had to do a 15 hour IFR conversion with a Cirrus approved instructor for Insurance purposes, but looking back I am glad I did.
The aircraft has:
• Twin Garmin 430s
• Full Auto-Pilot
• Terrain
• Traffic
• Strike Scope
• Twin MFDs. or 1 PFD and 1 MFD
• Electronic Check List
• Inbuilt Approach Charts
and the list just goes on........
Its learning how all these systems interact, most of the course is taken up of what to do if there is a malfunction. There is some general handling, of course, but that's an hour or two, most is flying approaches with MFD/PFD failing, GPS failures as well as CAPS training.
The chute is an absolute last resort, so zero viz, twin GPS failures no radio and the engine is dying because of fuel starvation, then you pull the handle, but it is an absolute last resort.
The actual flying of the aircraft is very simple and straight forward. In the 20 you can take 4 pax and fuel to tabs. Using lean assist it will burn about 8.5 GPH at 70% and the cruise is about 130-135knts. All power settings are done using % power and there is no reference to manifold pressure or prop RPM, although they are checked. The throttle has a cam system which workes the prop PRM, so it's a VP prop with FP controls.
Rotate = 65knts
Climb = 60knts
Circuit = 100knts 50% Power, 50% Flap
Base = 85knts 20-25% Power, 50% Flap
Final = 75-80knts 20-25% Power, 100% Flap
600m is our operating TODA and LDA Minima and we are not allowed to go in to grass strips for insurance reasons, although if you call them depending on the strip they will give you special dispensation. I think it's because of the weak nose leg and the distance from the prop tip to the ground.
Regarding the elevator authority, I have never had a problem. It's not really a aircraft you fly to the stall warning anyway, get your speed right and a 10 degree flare is fine, once the mains are down keep the nose up and lower it to the ground, don't just drop it as I tended to in a Cessna.
Anything else you need to know I am happy to help
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