BBC 4 tonight. Jet. When Britain Ruled the Skies
Discussion
ks. Didn't know it was on & only just seen the post as been away & haven't seen too much TV. Is it being repeated or am I going to have to trudge through iplayer which I don't like.No trudging required. PH to the rescue. Tomorrow is the last day it will be on the iPlayer so watch it as soon as you can.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01m9vjl/Jet!...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01m9vjl/Jet!...
I am sure Concorde was omitted because it sort of fell out of the brief of the programme. Concorde was an odd project in that it was very political in nature from teh very beginning and was far more about currying favour with France than with building a commercially viable airliner.
The projects that WERE covered were aircraft that the manufacturers built with the full intention of selling in reasonable numbers and which were often torpedoed by their targeted airline customer moving the goalposts. The odd omission to me was the Trident and/or the Vanguard.
The projects that WERE covered were aircraft that the manufacturers built with the full intention of selling in reasonable numbers and which were often torpedoed by their targeted airline customer moving the goalposts. The odd omission to me was the Trident and/or the Vanguard.
It seems also that one of the key problems was one that Britain formally excelled at; that of mass-production. We lead at cutting edge design and building superb, world beating planes but forgot that it was a business and that we actually had to build and deliver many units. Something that wasn’t an issue for Boeing and it’s resources, even if it’s product was inferior.
I would debate that its products were not inferior.
Don't forget that Boeing were NOT a big player in the airliner business BEFORE they started building jet airliners. Prior to the 707, they had only built airliners in fairly small numbers - the big players were Douglas, Lockheed, Martin and Convair. The 707 was revolutionary in so many ways.
Of course, the REALLY revolutionary aircraft in the history of the jet airliner is not the Comet or the 707, but the Boeing B-47.
Don't forget that Boeing were NOT a big player in the airliner business BEFORE they started building jet airliners. Prior to the 707, they had only built airliners in fairly small numbers - the big players were Douglas, Lockheed, Martin and Convair. The 707 was revolutionary in so many ways.
Of course, the REALLY revolutionary aircraft in the history of the jet airliner is not the Comet or the 707, but the Boeing B-47.
Eric Mc said:
Yes, it was the V1000 which BOAC were expected to order but instead went for a Rolls Royce Conway powered version of the 707.
The best point made in the programme, and one I have been aware of for years, was that the manufacturers couldn't actually cope with success. The building capacity just wasn't there.
An overstatement; apart from during the korean war when the emergency programme was in place, there was slack in many aero plants; Short spent most of their time doing subcontracting. After 1957 there was a big surplus of production capacity; the Blackburn plant in Dumbarton was more or less mothballed after that and was closed in 1961.The best point made in the programme, and one I have been aware of for years, was that the manufacturers couldn't actually cope with success. The building capacity just wasn't there.
The cancellation of the V1000/VC7 was a travesty; Edwards and others recognised it as the only chance of Britain remaining in the heavy airliner market and so it was. Commercial success there would have left BAC in a position to possibly develop their own widebody or take a greater role in Airbus.
hidetheelephants said:
An overstatement; apart from during the korean war when the emergency programme was in place, there was slack in many aero plants; Short spent most of their time doing subcontracting. After 1957 there was a big surplus of production capacity; the Blackburn plant in Dumbarton was more or less mothballed after that and was closed in 1961.
The cancellation of the V1000/VC7 was a travesty; Edwards and others recognised it as the only chance of Britain remaining in the heavy airliner market and so it was. Commercial success there would have left BAC in a position to possibly develop their own widebody or take a greater role in Airbus.
Look at what happened with the successful aircraft - such as the Viscount and the Canberra. The originating companies, Vickers and English Electric, were unable to build the aircraft in their own plants - due to the smallness of the factories and the poorly set up production lines. Canberras and Viscounts were built all over the place. Even Bristol had trouble assembling their relatively unsuccessful Britannia. They had to bring in Short Brothers to help build the relatively modest number eventually compmleted. It was inability to build required numbers fast enough that killed any chance of the Britannia in the US market.The cancellation of the V1000/VC7 was a travesty; Edwards and others recognised it as the only chance of Britain remaining in the heavy airliner market and so it was. Commercial success there would have left BAC in a position to possibly develop their own widebody or take a greater role in Airbus.
Nice review of the programme by Clive James in today's Telegraph.
He knows his aeroplanes, does Clive -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9522...
He knows his aeroplanes, does Clive -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9522...
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