Potentially controversial - Is the Vulcan REALLY that noisy?
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
Not sure I ever saw Starfighters, and based on their reputation I probably don't want to! There's an old joke in Germany: "How do I get hold of a Starfighter?". "Buy a field, and wait". I do remember Lightnings and Phantoms at Leuchars, though - the former really were something else, coming down the crowdline in absolute silence and at unimaginable speed, the noise following a few seconds later and threatening to tear a hole in the space-time continuum...
Part of that problem was due to the fact that it was the first complex jet in Luftwaffe service and a lack of experience in both aircrew and ground technicians. A bigger factor was that the Luftwaffe used the Starfighter in the fighter-bomber role, rather than the pure high altitude interceptor role for which it was designed. This meant piling on additional ordnance, pylons and avionics therefore greatly impacting the handling of a pretty sensitive aircraft.NM62 said:
I saw over 150+ at various times and I only knew of four of those subsequently crashing ( bird strike / engine failure / mid air collision ) - I remember a lot of the early German losses was down to the fact that trained their pilots in Nevada in very sunny climes and the losses were attributed to poor European Weather and it certainly improved in the latter stage of it's service life.
The tiny winglet on the F-104 gave sod all lift at low level. The Germans tried using theirs for ground attack. It didn't work. Those who knew to zoom-climb them to high level for interception managed not to lose too many, but it was still a right b
d in the circuit...All this talk of Starfighters, Lightnings and Phantoms brings back fond (and some not so fond - see below) memories of airshows as a kid. Lightnings in particular always left me in awe. Those very loud take-offs followed by an immediate vertical climb toward the stratosphere, disappearing out of sight in seconds.
I recall the howl of Starfighters being very distinctive. Unique even. Unfortunately one occasion observing these at Yeovilton airday saw one aircraft lose control and crash into a field not far from the airfield. The pilot was killed and a very sombre mood descended on the crowd. We were reminded how very real their reputation was.
I recall the howl of Starfighters being very distinctive. Unique even. Unfortunately one occasion observing these at Yeovilton airday saw one aircraft lose control and crash into a field not far from the airfield. The pilot was killed and a very sombre mood descended on the crowd. We were reminded how very real their reputation was.
RoverP6B said:
I've heard it said that the South Africans, trying to see what the Lightning will really do, have had their T.5 XS452 up to 88,000ft...
According to the Wikipedia page on the Lightning it has reached 88,000ft in a ballistic climb but not in the hands of the South Africans it appears.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lig...
Wikipedia page said:
In 1984, during a NATO exercise, Flt Lt Mike Hale intercepted a U-2 at a height which they had previously considered safe (thought to be 66,000 feet (20,000 m)). Records show that Hale also climbed to 88,000 ft (27,000 m) in his Lightning F.3 XR749. This was not sustained level flight but a ballistic climb, in which the pilot takes the aircraft to top speed and then puts the aircraft into a climb, exchanging speed for altitude. Hale also participated in time-to-height and acceleration trials against Lockheed F-104 Starfighters from Aalborg. He reports that the Lightnings won all races easily with the exception of the low-level supersonic acceleration, which was a "dead heat".[58] Lightning pilot and Chief Examiner Brian Carroll reported taking a Lightning F.53 up to 87,300 feet (26,600 m) over Saudi Arabia at which level "Earth curvature was visible and the sky was quite dark", noting that control-wise "[it was] on a knife edge".
pstruck said:
All this talk of Starfighters, Lightnings and Phantoms brings back fond (and some not so fond - see below) memories of airshows as a kid. Lightnings in particular always left me in awe. Those very loud take-offs followed by an immediate vertical climb toward the stratosphere, disappearing out of sight in seconds.
I recall the howl of Starfighters being very distinctive. Unique even. Unfortunately one occasion observing these at Yeovilton airday saw one aircraft lose control and crash into a field not far from the airfield. The pilot was killed and a very sombre mood descended on the crowd. We were reminded how very real their reputation was.
Because of the small wing, it used a blown air system, fed by the engine, to increase airflow over the top of the wing. If you had an engine problem on final approach, you not only lost power, you lost lift.I recall the howl of Starfighters being very distinctive. Unique even. Unfortunately one occasion observing these at Yeovilton airday saw one aircraft lose control and crash into a field not far from the airfield. The pilot was killed and a very sombre mood descended on the crowd. We were reminded how very real their reputation was.
Having said that, other European air arms who also flew the G version in a similar role did not have the same loss rate as the Germans. I am pretty sure it was the German training regime that was the main contributory factor to their problems.
If you read Jerry Pook's book "Flying Freestyle" you will find that he is very complimentary about the F-104. He flew them when on secondment to the Dutch Air Force.
Eric Mc said:
pstruck said:
All this talk of Starfighters, Lightnings and Phantoms brings back fond (and some not so fond - see below) memories of airshows as a kid. Lightnings in particular always left me in awe. Those very loud take-offs followed by an immediate vertical climb toward the stratosphere, disappearing out of sight in seconds.
I recall the howl of Starfighters being very distinctive. Unique even. Unfortunately one occasion observing these at Yeovilton airday saw one aircraft lose control and crash into a field not far from the airfield. The pilot was killed and a very sombre mood descended on the crowd. We were reminded how very real their reputation was.
Because of the small wing, it used a blown air system, fed by the engine, to increase airflow over the top of the wing. If you had an engine problem on final approach, you not only lost power, you lost lift.I recall the howl of Starfighters being very distinctive. Unique even. Unfortunately one occasion observing these at Yeovilton airday saw one aircraft lose control and crash into a field not far from the airfield. The pilot was killed and a very sombre mood descended on the crowd. We were reminded how very real their reputation was.
Having said that, other European air arms who also flew the G version in a similar role did not have the same loss rate as the Germans. I am pretty sure it was the German training regime that was the main contributory factor to their problems.
If you read Jerry Pook's book "Flying Freestyle" you will find that he is very complimentary about the F-104. He flew them when on secondment to the Dutch Air Force.
ETA - I had heard the same about the German training being a contributory factor to their early losses but as ever it was a lesson leaned the hard way.
Edited by NM62 on Thursday 22 October 14:02
rohrl said:
I remember seeing a Vulcan at RAF St. Athan when I was a kid. It was wheeling around above us at what seemed like impossibly low speeds for such a large aircraft and it still stands out in my mind as one of, if not the, the loudest things I've ever heard in my life.
I was once "buzzed" by a pair of Jaguars while on top of a mountain in mid-Wales at a ridiculously low height. Certainly under 100ft. They were loud but I think the Vulcan still pips it.
I saw the Vulcan at St Athan too! Maybe the same airshow.I was once "buzzed" by a pair of Jaguars while on top of a mountain in mid-Wales at a ridiculously low height. Certainly under 100ft. They were loud but I think the Vulcan still pips it.
At an airshow in the USA, there were F15s, 16s and 18s displaying, but then the announcer said 'Folks, you are going to want to cover your ears for this next aircraft, it can damage your hearing due to the volume and specific frequency of the noise'... then a Harrier appeared and hovered near the crowd!
RoverP6B said:
The thing about the Vulcan isn't about outright decibels. Hearing Eurofighters is like being at a Slayer concert - but the Vulcan is a cathedral organ at full chat. It's the sheer massive volume of sound that gets you. It comes in behind you really quietly, then you hear this ominous crescendo and then the howl kicks in, THEN the back end hits you - it doesn't merely assault your ears, it whacks you in the ribs and stomach, then shakes the ground under your feet. It resonates for miles around.
I think this video describes what you are saying perfectly. This flypast is etched in my mind for ever now. Partly because it was the last time I saw her, but also because of the way you could feel the power, for sooo long in the climb out. I've never felt it so much before watching her display, but on that evening it seemed to go on, and on, and on.
Eric Mc said:
I often think that Gerry Anderson used "Starfighter Howl" as his default jet engine noise.
The 'howl' part always sounded like the Meteor/Hunter bluenote to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rchC7XBngyI vs https://youtu.be/U77Dzq-QcCE?t=5m3sGassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff