Passsed a Trainee Train Driver Assessment
Discussion
I think it is for the most part. The amount of information to take in is huge, at least it is depending on your role. I've not been doing it long, but here are my thoughts on the harder parts of driving, ignoring other job aspects such as maintenance, etc.
You've got to know your routes well. It could be a few, or it could be loads. As a regular passenger driver you might do the same route day in day out, but the one day you have to deviate you'll get a sweat on if you've not kept the knowledge fresh. As a track machine driver you travel the country often on routes you've not been down for years. You've got to keep it in your head and refresh when necessary, it's sometimes difficult filtering what to remember and what isn't important, as you'll not be able to memorize every aspect.
Knowing your route involves knowing speed limits, both temporary and permanent, and they are often not displayed like on roads. You'll need to remember your signs too. Hitting a crossover at high speed that you didn't know was there, for example could end very badly. You've also got to be aware of signal location in order to adjust the trains speed accordingly. Imagine you're in the car driving a road you don't know well, you come quickly round the curve only to see a red light, so you hit the brakes and you'll probably stop within 200m max regardless of speed. Now do the same in a 100tonne train travelling at 125mph.. you'll be lucky to stop in a mile. Sure, because of the way signalling works on the railway you won't get a red light following a green, but you'll get a yellow, and if you are not aware of where the next signal is on your route, you won't be able to judge your braking distance by the time you've hit the red. Best case this means playing it safe and slowing down drastically, which will cause you to p
s off passengers and your boss, worst case it means you'll run the red after which there is no telling what could happen. There are electronic devices on both the train and the infrastructure to help prevent this, but ultimately you as the driver have to be switched on to stop it happening.
You'll often be sat down for long periods of time at odd hours, much like any other driving job. Butbthe railway isn't the most interesting of places sometimes and your actual input is often minimal. Fatigue will play a huge roll in your effectiveness as a driver.
It's a great job, but it's harder than many think.
You've got to know your routes well. It could be a few, or it could be loads. As a regular passenger driver you might do the same route day in day out, but the one day you have to deviate you'll get a sweat on if you've not kept the knowledge fresh. As a track machine driver you travel the country often on routes you've not been down for years. You've got to keep it in your head and refresh when necessary, it's sometimes difficult filtering what to remember and what isn't important, as you'll not be able to memorize every aspect.
Knowing your route involves knowing speed limits, both temporary and permanent, and they are often not displayed like on roads. You'll need to remember your signs too. Hitting a crossover at high speed that you didn't know was there, for example could end very badly. You've also got to be aware of signal location in order to adjust the trains speed accordingly. Imagine you're in the car driving a road you don't know well, you come quickly round the curve only to see a red light, so you hit the brakes and you'll probably stop within 200m max regardless of speed. Now do the same in a 100tonne train travelling at 125mph.. you'll be lucky to stop in a mile. Sure, because of the way signalling works on the railway you won't get a red light following a green, but you'll get a yellow, and if you are not aware of where the next signal is on your route, you won't be able to judge your braking distance by the time you've hit the red. Best case this means playing it safe and slowing down drastically, which will cause you to p
s off passengers and your boss, worst case it means you'll run the red after which there is no telling what could happen. There are electronic devices on both the train and the infrastructure to help prevent this, but ultimately you as the driver have to be switched on to stop it happening. You'll often be sat down for long periods of time at odd hours, much like any other driving job. Butbthe railway isn't the most interesting of places sometimes and your actual input is often minimal. Fatigue will play a huge roll in your effectiveness as a driver.
It's a great job, but it's harder than many think.
Route knowledge and its retention is a massive part of the job, depending on where you're based the amount you have to learn and sign for can be huge. My route card is pretty extensive but I have mates elsewhere who's cards are larger than mine. Imagine driving the whole length of the M6 day in, day out but having to sign a legal document stating that you are intimately familiar with every inch of it in all weathers... every route possibility, every junction, where they can take you and where they can't, every bridge, gradient, landmark, every bit of signage, every possible distraction etc, etc. Now transfer the idea to several different main and branch line routes, throw in every signal and knowing which signalbox controls it, every siding and loop (plus knowing what they're called), every station, yard, level crossing (knowing the differences between all the different types), foot crossing, bridge, viaduct, tunnel, gradient, braking point, areas of low adhesion and high winds, every signalled move it's possible to make (and those that it's not) and a whole lot more besides. It soon adds up! The trouble is most folk only see us sitting on our backsides drinking tea, pulling levers and pushing buttons. I had my bi-annual rules exam last Wednesday which took seven hours, it's surprising just how much information you can keep in your memory... what it's all for, how and when you can (and can't!) use it., emergency procedures for any given situation, of which there are many. Divided train on a single line..? Single line working by Pilotman..? Remember which signals you're allowed to pass at danger with your own authority... and which ones you can't...?
Driving the train is just one part of it, the rest goes unseen.
Driving the train is just one part of it, the rest goes unseen.
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 9th April 20:55
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 9th April 20:55
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 9th April 20:56
P5BNij said:
Route knowledge and its retention is a massive part of the job, depending on where you're based the amount you have to learn and sign for can be huge. My route card is pretty extensive but I have mates elsewhere who's cards are larger than mine. Imagine driving the whole length of the M6 day in, day out but having to sign a legal document stating that you are intimately familiar with every inch of it in all weathers... every route possibility, every junction, where they can take you and where they can't, every bridge, gradient, landmark, every bit of signage, every possible distraction etc, etc. Now transfer the idea to several different main and branch line routes, throw in every signal and knowing which signalbox controls it, every siding and loop (plus knowing what they're called), every station, yard, level crossing (knowing the differences between all the different types), foot crossing, bridge, viaduct, tunnel, gradient, braking point, areas of low adhesion and high winds, every signalled move it's possible to make (and those that it's not) and a whole lot more besides. It soon adds up! The trouble is most folk only see us sitting on our backsides drinking tea, pulling levers and pushing buttons. I had my bi-annual rules exam last Wednesday which took seven hours, it's surprising just how much information you can keep in your memory... what it's all for, how and when you can (and can't!) use it., emergency procedures for any given situation, of which there are many. Divided train on a single line..? Single line working by Pilotman..? Remember which signals you're allowed to pass at danger with your own authority... and which ones you can't...?
Driving the train is just one part of it, the rest goes unseen.
Good summary.Driving the train is just one part of it, the rest goes unseen.
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 9th April 20:55
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 9th April 20:55
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 9th April 20:56
Knowing what every signal does (some signals have 8 different meanings!) and where they take you etc is only a small part. Now consider that 'small part' of the job requires me to know possibly 8 things about 1000 different signals in a relatively small area and it really starts to add up. Oh, and green isn't necessarily correct
The actual thought process that goes in is immense. In some places you can be in the section approaching a stop signal at 50mph and others its 15mph. You simply cannot have an 'off' day. If I had a 1% failure rate, I would be stopping-short (which means my whole train is not on the platform), missing a station, etc once a day!
Ilovejapcrap said:
Two very informative posts thanks.
So if you work a new line, Do you have to sit with someone going up and down to get to know it so to speak ?
Yes, we route learn.So if you work a new line, Do you have to sit with someone going up and down to get to know it so to speak ?
You will have a brief with a trainer and the opportunity to drive the route a few times that day. At my TOC it is a day like this, then X amount of days to 'route learn' and then a final day signing it off proving that you are competent. You can of course go back to the trainer at anytime before the final day with any problems, questions.
Sods law, you'll do something obscure on the first day of driving it alone!
Stedman said:
Ilovejapcrap said:
Two very informative posts thanks.
So if you work a new line, Do you have to sit with someone going up and down to get to know it so to speak ?
Yes, we route learn.So if you work a new line, Do you have to sit with someone going up and down to get to know it so to speak ?
You will have a brief with a trainer and the opportunity to drive the route a few times that day. At my TOC it is a day like this, then X amount of days to 'route learn' and then a final day signing it off proving that you are competent. You can of course go back to the trainer at anytime before the final day with any problems, questions.
Sods law, you'll do something obscure on the first day of driving it alone!
Ilovejapcrap said:
What do you mean by signalling it off?
Signing on the dotted line my friend! To say that you are happy with the route etc etc and that the trainer deems you competent.Some say they're going to sign a route, some say they're going to sign a route off (the later meaning two different things!)
Is it a big deal.
Well picture this route learning for HSS drivers at Paddington (intercity 125) for the non train people. They sign london to cardiff London to oxford and london to exeter to begin with. It takes a competent person 6 months to learn the cardiff route alone. Thats every signal, every station (even if you will never stop there) every junction, where you can and cant go off signals. General route knowledge, places and landmarks etc (dont sound a big deal until you breakdown in thr middle of nowhere and there isnt a signal, OLE mast plate or milepost in site! Couple to the fact in the mornings 8 coaches fully laden close to 1000 people squeezed in going 125mph.
Its a job that carrys alot of responsibilitys and demands alot of the driver, you sit alone for long periods and you are concentrating. If it was easy everyone would do it.
However what I will say is actually the process of making a train move and stop is easy you are paid for your route knowledge and out of course work (when it goes tits up).
What I love about the job is big noisy fast trains (sorry Im a geek) the scenery but mostly that nearly 99% of drivers take pride in their job and will do the job to the highest standard. Most industries this is not the case.
Well picture this route learning for HSS drivers at Paddington (intercity 125) for the non train people. They sign london to cardiff London to oxford and london to exeter to begin with. It takes a competent person 6 months to learn the cardiff route alone. Thats every signal, every station (even if you will never stop there) every junction, where you can and cant go off signals. General route knowledge, places and landmarks etc (dont sound a big deal until you breakdown in thr middle of nowhere and there isnt a signal, OLE mast plate or milepost in site! Couple to the fact in the mornings 8 coaches fully laden close to 1000 people squeezed in going 125mph.
Its a job that carrys alot of responsibilitys and demands alot of the driver, you sit alone for long periods and you are concentrating. If it was easy everyone would do it.
However what I will say is actually the process of making a train move and stop is easy you are paid for your route knowledge and out of course work (when it goes tits up).
What I love about the job is big noisy fast trains (sorry Im a geek) the scenery but mostly that nearly 99% of drivers take pride in their job and will do the job to the highest standard. Most industries this is not the case.
While route learning and retention is a massive part, you also have to know how to fix the damn thing when it all goes tits up. Trains are complicated pieces of kit and Sod's law will mean that your train will suffer a problem in the middle of the peak and you're rammed with nearly a thousand passengers on board. Your control is calling you every thirty seconds for an update, your train's TMS is giving you conflicting information and one wrong isolation or action could put your train in an unsafe state. (Driving with the doors open? What could go wrong? We don't really need all the brakes, do we?). And now you've spilt your coffee and someone pulled an alarm because someone fainted.
There is no AA on the railway and if it ends up that an engineer has to travel to your stalled train or another train has to push you out, you better make damn sure you've tried everything otherwise you'll be having a standup meeting with your manager where no biscuits are forthcoming.
There is no AA on the railway and if it ends up that an engineer has to travel to your stalled train or another train has to push you out, you better make damn sure you've tried everything otherwise you'll be having a standup meeting with your manager where no biscuits are forthcoming.
valiant said:
While route learning and retention is a massive part, you also have to know how to fix the damn thing when it all goes tits up. Trains are complicated pieces of kit and Sod's law will mean that your train will suffer a problem in the middle of the peak and you're rammed with nearly a thousand passengers on board. Your control is calling you every thirty seconds for an update, your train's TMS is giving you conflicting information and one wrong isolation or action could put your train in an unsafe state. (Driving with the doors open? What could go wrong? We don't really need all the brakes, do we?). And now you've spilt your coffee and someone pulled an alarm because someone fainted.
There is no AA on the railway and if it ends up that an engineer has to travel to your stalled train or another train has to push you out, you better make damn sure you've tried everything otherwise you'll be having a standup meeting with your manager where no biscuits are forthcoming.
There's only so much we can do when our 66s fail, we talk to the duty fitter over the phone to try to resolve things if we can but sometimes we just have to wait for the 'man in a van' to turn up and fix the problem. With '70s we're not even allowed to open the engine room doors.There is no AA on the railway and if it ends up that an engineer has to travel to your stalled train or another train has to push you out, you better make damn sure you've tried everything otherwise you'll be having a standup meeting with your manager where no biscuits are forthcoming.
Sophie194 said:
Just a quick one, I understand medicals are pretty strict, and for good reason, but how strict? I have a friend who's due to sit a medical, and his hearings fine, apart from the fact that there's a certain frequency he's not too good at hearing but only in one ear, although this doesn't affect him day to day, and he was only made aware due to a medical he sat when he began working in the police service, it didn't affect him going into the police, but I was wondering whether his would affect him?
The medicals are very strict, train driving is safety critical work and as such even taking certain medications when ill can earn you a spell off driving duties. Given hearing is a major part of driving a train i.e Aws bells and horns I'd expect that to be an issue.legzr1 said:
P5BNij said:
With '70s we're not even allowed to open the engine room doors.
What?Not even to dowse the flames?
A mate of mine at another depot had one fail completely on him just as he was passing over a major junction in the rush hour, he sat there for about forty minutes before he was able to correct the fault.
Belated congratulations to Sophie for passing the assessments.
If it helps, I believe that the hearing test pretty much everywhere involves sticking you in a soundproofed box, putting headphones on you and then playing various tones in one ear or the other, or both. The tones vary in strength and pitch. You have a button that you have to press when the tone becomes audible and release when it passes out of your range of hearing.
It's possible that the pitch your friend can't hear will be in the acceptable range anyway, or not even one of the parts of hearing they test for. Or it's possible they can just fudge it by holding the button a bit longer/pressing it a bit earlier. It's not exactly an infallible test
My 2p's worth;
Route knowledge, as others have said, is massive. That's why I'd suggest to anyone starting training don't waste your front-end turns! Many people are swept up in the excitement of being in the cab and are happy to gasbag with their driver about the football/weather/whatever. Then you get to actually start practical handling and realise you know cockall about the routes... and you have to learn all that tedious crap that P5 explained right when all you want to do is worry about the actual mechanics of driving the damned thing! It's not always easy; when you do front ends you probably will only have the bare minimum of Rules (PTS might be all you get by then) so won't be able to understand the tiny complexities of what you're looking at. But you can start learning speeds and signals and the basics. It'll give you a massive headstart when you actually start driving under tuition. A good front-end driver won't mind passing on their knowledge to you, and if they do, ask for one who doesn't. It's your time, don't waste it!
Traction (fixing fings when they broke) is also huge. Never pass up on a chance to learn about getting yourself out of trouble... you can guarantee the first time you have a fault in person it'll be at night, in the rain, either in the middle of nowhere or right slap bang in the middle of the busiest junction on your route in the peak when you're causing 98 delay minutes per second. You really don't want to be desperately flicking through your traction manual trying to find where the relevant MCB is hidden, in which coach, behind which bulkhead.
Finally, if you don't have a thick skin and can't take banter, don't bother. Walking into a messroom can be like smearing yourself in honey and jumping into a bear pit at times. Show any sign of weakness and they'll eat you alive. The railway has changed (some of it for the better) but there are still plenty of dinosaurs who will treat you like scum because you don't have at least 25 years' service. Want to experience the atmosphere from the Slaughtered Lamb pub in American Werewolf in London? Go into an oldschool messroom and sit at the top link table when you're just a boil-in-the-bag and you'll instantly be as popular as a 70s DJ at a kids party. If you can't shrug it off, keep your neck wound in or be happy to butt heads when necessary, you'll be filling in a lot of grievance forms (and treated like you have leprosy). It's not right, but sadly it's still there
Finally finally... ASLEF and the RMT can both be utterly hateful. But necessary. Don't underestimate the power of the Old Boys' network. I guarantee you won't have worked anywhere that unions have so much power and influence. They can be a power for good. More often they are a power for utter lethargy. Watch Carry On At Your Convenience and you're about a tenth of the way there
If it helps, I believe that the hearing test pretty much everywhere involves sticking you in a soundproofed box, putting headphones on you and then playing various tones in one ear or the other, or both. The tones vary in strength and pitch. You have a button that you have to press when the tone becomes audible and release when it passes out of your range of hearing.
It's possible that the pitch your friend can't hear will be in the acceptable range anyway, or not even one of the parts of hearing they test for. Or it's possible they can just fudge it by holding the button a bit longer/pressing it a bit earlier. It's not exactly an infallible test
My 2p's worth;
Route knowledge, as others have said, is massive. That's why I'd suggest to anyone starting training don't waste your front-end turns! Many people are swept up in the excitement of being in the cab and are happy to gasbag with their driver about the football/weather/whatever. Then you get to actually start practical handling and realise you know cockall about the routes... and you have to learn all that tedious crap that P5 explained right when all you want to do is worry about the actual mechanics of driving the damned thing! It's not always easy; when you do front ends you probably will only have the bare minimum of Rules (PTS might be all you get by then) so won't be able to understand the tiny complexities of what you're looking at. But you can start learning speeds and signals and the basics. It'll give you a massive headstart when you actually start driving under tuition. A good front-end driver won't mind passing on their knowledge to you, and if they do, ask for one who doesn't. It's your time, don't waste it!
Traction (fixing fings when they broke) is also huge. Never pass up on a chance to learn about getting yourself out of trouble... you can guarantee the first time you have a fault in person it'll be at night, in the rain, either in the middle of nowhere or right slap bang in the middle of the busiest junction on your route in the peak when you're causing 98 delay minutes per second. You really don't want to be desperately flicking through your traction manual trying to find where the relevant MCB is hidden, in which coach, behind which bulkhead.
Finally, if you don't have a thick skin and can't take banter, don't bother. Walking into a messroom can be like smearing yourself in honey and jumping into a bear pit at times. Show any sign of weakness and they'll eat you alive. The railway has changed (some of it for the better) but there are still plenty of dinosaurs who will treat you like scum because you don't have at least 25 years' service. Want to experience the atmosphere from the Slaughtered Lamb pub in American Werewolf in London? Go into an oldschool messroom and sit at the top link table when you're just a boil-in-the-bag and you'll instantly be as popular as a 70s DJ at a kids party. If you can't shrug it off, keep your neck wound in or be happy to butt heads when necessary, you'll be filling in a lot of grievance forms (and treated like you have leprosy). It's not right, but sadly it's still there
Finally finally... ASLEF and the RMT can both be utterly hateful. But necessary. Don't underestimate the power of the Old Boys' network. I guarantee you won't have worked anywhere that unions have so much power and influence. They can be a power for good. More often they are a power for utter lethargy. Watch Carry On At Your Convenience and you're about a tenth of the way there
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