What will the Government buy if the F35 is cancelled?
Discussion
Mojocvh said:
1. they had a LOT more 104's.
2. they cost peanuts compared to both the projected purchase and lifetime support F35B costs.
I get your point, but still.2. they cost peanuts compared to both the projected purchase and lifetime support F35B costs.
Hopping into a flying machine is already risky, it's a machine. Getting in one that is something designed to be lethal in the extreme, and can kill simply through accelerating you to death, is risky.
The only outrage in this case would be how it can crash at all given the cost etc... but hey, who can put a price on your safety (the governments angle, not mine)
Given this entire aircraft is now in the realms of bonkers stupidity it really can't get too much worse either.
F35 in expensive failure shocker!
Mr Whippy said:
I don't know how I'd feel about it. I'd probably be happier flying an F35 or F22 than an F104 though 
I wouldn't.There wasn't any inherent design flaw with the Hooter (apart from Kelly Johnson forgetting to put a set of wings on it
) it was the way certain air forces chose to operate it, in an operational envelope it wasn't originally designed for.The F-35B on the other hand is the epitome of the design by political committee and procurement clusterf
ks that is the modern way as opposed to an old fashioned project lead from the start by one of the greatest aviation design Engineers there has been.Mr Whippy said:
Yep it's a weird one.
Flying a combat aircraft then worrying about the rare likelihood of some bad bit of design costing you your life.
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults. Or if they just thought that potential issues were just a fact of life.
I didn't realise the F22 had class action law stuff going on. Was that with the high altitude operation of the air system causing issues? I never read up fully about it at the time. Was it eventually resolved or still ongoing?
I don't know how I'd feel about it. I'd probably be happier flying an F35 or F22 than an F104 though
My mistake not a class action. Single plaintive but multiple pilots reported the same fault.Flying a combat aircraft then worrying about the rare likelihood of some bad bit of design costing you your life.
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults. Or if they just thought that potential issues were just a fact of life.
I didn't realise the F22 had class action law stuff going on. Was that with the high altitude operation of the air system causing issues? I never read up fully about it at the time. Was it eventually resolved or still ongoing?
I don't know how I'd feel about it. I'd probably be happier flying an F35 or F22 than an F104 though
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/lockheed-martin-boei...
Dr Jekyll said:
Mr Whippy said:
Yep it's a weird one.
Flying a combat aircraft then worrying about the rare likelihood of some bad bit of design costing you your life.
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults.
Manchester crews certainly didFlying a combat aircraft then worrying about the rare likelihood of some bad bit of design costing you your life.
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults.
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Mr Whippy said:
Yep it's a weird one.
Flying a combat aircraft then worrying about the rare likelihood of some bad bit of design costing you your life.
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults.
Manchester crews certainly didFlying a combat aircraft then worrying about the rare likelihood of some bad bit of design costing you your life.
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults.
Mr Whippy said:
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults. Or if they just thought that potential issues were just a fact of life.
The Lancaster was designed to fly in wartime though. Modern aircraft do most of their flying in peacetime, for example when I was working on EJ200 (the engines in Typhoon) they had to comply with emissions regulations that were nothing to do with the prospect of their emissions being used to detect them (although that is a real possibility these days)RizzoTheRat said:
The Lancaster was designed to fly in wartime though. Modern aircraft do most of their flying in peacetime, for example when I was working on EJ200 (the engines in Typhoon) they had to comply with emissions regulations that were nothing to do with the prospect of their emissions being used to detect them (although that is a real possibility these days)
Tis a nice little engine! Good work.But I'm not sure peacetime considerations would impact the reality of the governments response if things were to go awry, rightly or wrongly.
Even in peacetime the best safest war machines fail and people die
I agree it's no good to have known buggered aeroplanes, but I'm guessing a good duty for safety will have taken place to make sure it's safe enough for the operational use.
Hmmm
Dave
Latest US Government GAO Report on The F135 Engine...
..some people may need to sit down prior to reading...
some will say-told ya so...
http://www.dodig.mil/pubs/documents/DODIG-2015-111...
Additional program management oversight is required by the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) and the Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA), as evidenced by the 61 nonconformities (violations of AS9100C, regulatory requirements and DoD policies) that we documented during our inspection.
...etc..
..some people may need to sit down prior to reading...
some will say-told ya so...
http://www.dodig.mil/pubs/documents/DODIG-2015-111...
Additional program management oversight is required by the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) and the Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA), as evidenced by the 61 nonconformities (violations of AS9100C, regulatory requirements and DoD policies) that we documented during our inspection.
...etc..
Mr Whippy said:
Like I said some pages back, purposeful actions in this regard should be seen as treason. We shouldn't reduce our military advantage for the benefits of pocket lining or shareholders or someone's journey up the slippery pole of politics.
Dave
There is no major military contractor that makes a very high rate of return. Defence is a low margin business with a complete dick for a customer.Dave
Have a listen to this, the people involved with the defence select committee beat most consistently on the MoD and the services.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017mtfc
Mr Whippy said:
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults. Or if they just thought that potential issues were just a fact of life.
Being shot at was probably more of a concern. But I do remember one story I read many years ago. Just before D-Day, 617 Squadron's Lancasters had new autopilots fitted by Avro engineers. They then found out that one of their planes had had both elevators installed upside down at the factory. RizzoTheRat said:
Mr Whippy said:
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults. Or if they just thought that potential issues were just a fact of life.
The Lancaster was designed to fly in wartime though. Modern aircraft do most of their flying in peacetime, for example when I was working on EJ200 (the engines in Typhoon) they had to comply with emissions regulations that were nothing to do with the prospect of their emissions being used to detect them (although that is a real possibility these days) Quite the loudest engine noise of anything that routinely flys over the UK - much mcuh louder than an F-15 for examplerhinochopig said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Mr Whippy said:
I wonder if the Lancaster crews worried about random potential faults. Or if they just thought that potential issues were just a fact of life.
The Lancaster was designed to fly in wartime though. Modern aircraft do most of their flying in peacetime, for example when I was working on EJ200 (the engines in Typhoon) they had to comply with emissions regulations that were nothing to do with the prospect of their emissions being used to detect them (although that is a real possibility these days) Quite the loudest engine noise of anything that routinely flys over the UK - much mcuh louder than an F-15 for examplealthough XH558 has got 4 off engines vs 2 in the Tiff
Idea that been in my head for some time.
Germany wants a euro-army. so:
Germany:
Britian- stop pratting around, go catobar on one of your decks and buy a boatload of rafales and like it
France- Ask britain to build you a proper carrier and like it (their a/c carrier fleet is still a bit of joke right?)
Both of you- we'll sweeten the deal with a playset for ourselves, and offer the aspiring me-too euro countries in the market for new kit like spain/italy etc tempting terms on the same.
Germany gets a european wide defensive/offensive force with high levels of inter-operability as they'd naturally train together, it gets it's "euro army" by default as a task force to rival anything on earth could be pulled togther and mixed/matched as required, britain and france get to make lots of profitable kit, everyones happy, europes happy.
This, or that this has not happened, is why the grand european vision can only fail.
Germany wants a euro-army. so:
Germany:
Britian- stop pratting around, go catobar on one of your decks and buy a boatload of rafales and like it
France- Ask britain to build you a proper carrier and like it (their a/c carrier fleet is still a bit of joke right?)
Both of you- we'll sweeten the deal with a playset for ourselves, and offer the aspiring me-too euro countries in the market for new kit like spain/italy etc tempting terms on the same.
Germany gets a european wide defensive/offensive force with high levels of inter-operability as they'd naturally train together, it gets it's "euro army" by default as a task force to rival anything on earth could be pulled togther and mixed/matched as required, britain and france get to make lots of profitable kit, everyones happy, europes happy.
This, or that this has not happened, is why the grand european vision can only fail.
All those naysayers wailing "oh no, navalised Typhoon, too expensive, tra-la-la", we could have navalised it and plated it in 22 carat fking gold and it looks like it would still come in cheaper than the Dunderheed F35 Shightning.
If Rafales are too bitter (or garlic-y) a pill to swallow there's also Sea Gripen concept.
king gold and it looks like it would still come in cheaper than the Dunderheed F35 Shightning.If Rafales are too bitter (or garlic-y) a pill to swallow there's also Sea Gripen concept.
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