What will the Government buy if the F35 is cancelled?

[Mojocvh]

MartG said:

The ones sold to the US had been recently refurbished, and although they were sold for parts it has been said tha the US found the airframes were in better condition than their own

Modified from GR7 to GR9...

[andy97]

The Naval Typhoon really is a red herring. No land based aircraft has been successfully developed into a cats a traps plane after the event - the stresses and strains are just too great and in different areas. You need to develop the Cats and traps version first and then lighten it for conventional use rather than the other way round. Trying to do the latter is a licence to need to print money.

[anonymous-user]

Problem with using any other platform is the cost of weapons integration, there is no point saying "lets use Harriers" or some other platform if none of the currently supported weapons are fitted or can be integrated at a sensible cost. You cant for instance integrate Brinstone 2 onto a Harrier without spending millions on avionics.

[MartG]

Brimstone trials Harrier

[anonymous-user]

Bolting dummy launchers and weapons onto an aircraft is not integrating them onto the platform and making it go whoosh and bang. I don't know how far down the path they went regarding actually making it a real proposition.I'm pretty sure UK only use Brimstone 2 these days, not the older variant so I'd guess lots more work/cash would be required....

[Ian Lancs]

MartG said:

Brimstone trials Harrier

Even thought thats a handling trial, the avionics to talk to to a "real" weapon were already developed; iirc the software that would have made it to front line was just about to be delivered.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Single Mode Brimstone had an operational clearance on Harrier (note: this was not a full Release To Service).

Dual Mode Brimstone was never cleared for Harier.

[anonymous-user]

crikey, much further down the development path than I thought, thanks. Dual Mode, assuming we cant use the fire and forget variant anymore, would require a complete integration programme then?

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 2nd May 19:34

[MBBlat]

Navalised typhoon - nothing more than some pretty renderings on a BAE marketing powerpoint, AFAIK no-one took it seriously.
For those that want it instead of F35 - take the latters development problems then multiply by 10. Its not as though the land based Typhoon had any teething problems, or was in service on time.
And its not a new problem - look up B29 development sometime.

[Blib]

Admittedly, I know nothing about this business whatsoever. However, I was speaking to someone yesterday who mentioned that he was a civil servant. Anyway, we got to talking about his job and he mentioned the aircraft carriers.

As I've dipped in and out of this thread I said to him that I'd heard that we may not be getting F35s for the carriers.

"It did look like that," He replied. "But, it's now all sorted out".

I'll just leave that here.

[frodo_monkey]

Just to tidy up the Brimstone chat - both Legacy (radar only) and Dual Mode Seeker Brimstone (radar/laser - note 'DMS Brimstone' not 'DM Brimstone') remain in service on the Tornado. Brimstone 2 not yet fielded, part of the SPEAR program.

Good fun firing a DMSB - particularly when bad b*stards are on the end of it...

[RobGT81]

Ian Lancs said:

Even thought thats a handling trial, the avionics to talk to to a "real" weapon were already developed; iirc the software that would have made it to front line was just about to be delivered.

Developed and fitted to two aircraft before the cuts came along. The mod program was about to go into full swing along with the canopy hook mod.

[MartG]

A wonderful metaphor for the F-35 procurement process - or indeed how politicians deal with anything more technically challenging than buying stationary....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

[Mr Whippy]

MartG said:

A wonderful metaphor for the F-35 procurement process - or indeed how politicians deal with anything more technically challenging than buying stationary....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

And this is why everyone wants to out-source to newly developed countries, they haven't added this level of bureaucratic bks to proceedings.
But no doubt it'll just be a matter of time.

It's cringe worthy to see the cash spent on going to blow up a balloon type jobs, more so in industries feeding off society like pensions or government.


I despair for humanity I really do, when videos like that are so accurate

[Mojocvh]

Seems there are some major issues with the F135 engine........seems it likes to "flex"....

[Mr Whippy]

Mojocvh said:

Seems there are some major issues with the F135 engine........seems it likes to "flex"....

I've been watching some cool videos recently on the F22, Su27 family, Eurofighter, and Tornado developments. None were without hiccups along the way.

But it does seem those facing the F35 are symptomatic of floating briefs causing unintended consequences, meaning many more hiccups.

The F35 is going to be so expensive in the end that it'll be fielded in too few numbers to really be any use, especially when weapons systems seem to be advancing way faster than aircraft generational updates.

Dave

[Mojocvh]

It's official..

F35 is "BadASS"

there's even a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HvOFTIyQzc

so there!

[hairyben]

Mr Whippy said:

I've been watching some cool videos recently on the F22, Su27 family, Eurofighter, and Tornado developments. None were without hiccups along the way.

But it does seem those facing the F35 are symptomatic of floating briefs causing unintended consequences, meaning many more hiccups.

The F35 is going to be so expensive in the end that it'll be fielded in too few numbers to really be any use, especially when weapons systems seem to be advancing way faster than aircraft generational updates.

Dave

The F35B story reminds me a bit of the TSR2, insofar as the politic might just crush the plane before it can live.

[mph1977]

hairyben said:

Mr Whippy said:

I've been watching some cool videos recently on the F22, Su27 family, Eurofighter, and Tornado developments. None were without hiccups along the way.

But it does seem those facing the F35 are symptomatic of floating briefs causing unintended consequences, meaning many more hiccups.

The F35 is going to be so expensive in the end that it'll be fielded in too few numbers to really be any use, especially when weapons systems seem to be advancing way faster than aircraft generational updates.

Dave

The F35B story reminds me a bit of the TSR2, insofar as the politic might just crush the plane before it can live.

except of course it is the 'Murica, f**k yeah preferred option ...

if you look at the amount of cash the yanks have chucked at the Osprey ...

[aeropilot]

hairyben said:

Mr Whippy said:

I've been watching some cool videos recently on the F22, Su27 family, Eurofighter, and Tornado developments. None were without hiccups along the way.

But it does seem those facing the F35 are symptomatic of floating briefs causing unintended consequences, meaning many more hiccups.

The F35 is going to be so expensive in the end that it'll be fielded in too few numbers to really be any use, especially when weapons systems seem to be advancing way faster than aircraft generational updates.

Dave

The F35B story reminds me a bit of the TSR2, insofar as the politic might just crush the plane before it can live.

Except that TSR2 was UK only politics, and UK only industry.
F-35 is a whole bigger 'must not be seen to fail' USA political project - far too many people's political lives depend on it - so they will not can it. For the yanks there is no other option.
UK politicans have already reversed the decision back to the B again from the C, so aren't going to chop it - regardless whether it's the right tool for the job or not.
The services will 'make do' with what they are given - as usual.