What will the Government buy if the F35 is cancelled?
Discussion
Europa1 said:
Z06George said:
Could be mis-remembering but isn't that because initial designs were with no cannon? Then there was an uproar about how that was dumb.
One would have thought they would have learned from the Phantom.
Have you got a link? Its a zero-zero seat designed for probably the largest weight range of pilots of any seat - so I'm not particularly surprised it has the capability to injure the pilot; as have many seats in operation. The question really for me is whether there are controls in place to minimise the risk to acceptable levels.
It's a Martin Baker US16E. The problem is that it's been specced to push the pilot clear of the plane when it's flying at 250 KIAS with the lift fan door open to 60 degrees. As a result the seat has to go a really long way up quite quickly to clear the plane. When that's combined with the new helmet (that is heavy, and substantially heavier than the previous version), you can see how it's a bit neck-snappy.
telecat said:
Seems that they have tested the Ejector seat and it has the capability to break the neck of lighter pilots. Surely that should have been the first thing tested???
Having flown on a 'Gun Seat' (Martin Baker Mk4) which was significantly more violent than the later rocket assisted seats, and being a mere 120lbs, I call BS on that report.Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Monday 5th October 23:03
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
telecat said:
Seems that they have tested the Ejector seat and it has the capability to break the neck of lighter pilots. Surely that should have been the first thing tested???
Having flown on a 'Gun Seat' (Martin Baker Mk4) which was significantly more violent than the later rocket assisted seats, and being a mere 120lbs, I call BS on that report.But then you said -
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
muckymotor said:
When you say flown on the seat, was it still attached to an aircraft? Genuine question by the way.
Yes. I've fortunately never had to use one in anger. If you haven't experienced the seat in an ejection situation, how can simply sitting on the seat give you grounds to call bulls
t on the article?Has your arse got some kinda sixth-sense as to how your body is going to react in an ejection?
Edited by TheJimi on Tuesday 6th October 11:34
I didn't say 'flown' I said 'flown on'.
My point being that the MB Mk4 seat was a 'gun seat' and produced a much greater G onset upon ejection than do the later 'rocket seats'. Ergo gun seats cause more spinal injuries. The fact that the RAF permitted me to fly in an aircraft fitted with such a seat, and me being relatively light at 120lbs (55 Kg) means that the assertion that the MB Mk16 seat will be more likely to damage lighter weight pilots sounds to me like B/S.
In fact, if you actually bother to read the Mk US16E seat specifications you would note that it is rated for pilots as light as 46.7 Kg which is a lower figure than that permitted on the Mk 10 rocket seat currently fitted to the Hawk and Tornado.
But hey, why bother with research when you can get a snide quip in eh?
My point being that the MB Mk4 seat was a 'gun seat' and produced a much greater G onset upon ejection than do the later 'rocket seats'. Ergo gun seats cause more spinal injuries. The fact that the RAF permitted me to fly in an aircraft fitted with such a seat, and me being relatively light at 120lbs (55 Kg) means that the assertion that the MB Mk16 seat will be more likely to damage lighter weight pilots sounds to me like B/S.
In fact, if you actually bother to read the Mk US16E seat specifications you would note that it is rated for pilots as light as 46.7 Kg which is a lower figure than that permitted on the Mk 10 rocket seat currently fitted to the Hawk and Tornado.
But hey, why bother with research when you can get a snide quip in eh?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
I didn't say 'flown' I said 'flown on'.
My point being that the MB Mk4 seat was a 'gun seat' and produced a much greater G onset upon ejection than do the later 'rocket seats'. Ergo gun seats cause more spinal injuries. The fact that the RAF permitted me to fly in an aircraft fitted with such a seat, and me being relatively light at 120lbs (55 Kg) means that the assertion that the MB Mk16 seat will be more likely to damage lighter weight pilots sounds to me like B/S.
In fact, if you actually bother to read the Mk US16E seat specifications you would note that it is rated for pilots as light as 46.7 Kg which is a lower figure than that permitted on the Mk 10 rocket seat currently fitted to the Hawk and Tornado.
But hey, why bother with research when you can get a snide quip in eh?
OK, I took "flown on" to mean that you'd experienced an ejection with that seat, a not unreasonable assumption given the context.My point being that the MB Mk4 seat was a 'gun seat' and produced a much greater G onset upon ejection than do the later 'rocket seats'. Ergo gun seats cause more spinal injuries. The fact that the RAF permitted me to fly in an aircraft fitted with such a seat, and me being relatively light at 120lbs (55 Kg) means that the assertion that the MB Mk16 seat will be more likely to damage lighter weight pilots sounds to me like B/S.
In fact, if you actually bother to read the Mk US16E seat specifications you would note that it is rated for pilots as light as 46.7 Kg which is a lower figure than that permitted on the Mk 10 rocket seat currently fitted to the Hawk and Tornado.
But hey, why bother with research when you can get a snide quip in eh?
However, that said, your articulation makes a lot more sense.
davepoth said:
...When that's combined with the new helmet (that is heavy, and substantially heavier than the previous version), you can see how it's a bit neck-snappy.
I think that's a significant part of the problem, the new Gen 3 helmet seems to oversize and overweight.Also, according to Martin Bakers promo film it's the first time there has been a Neck Injury Criteria to fail.
maffski said:
I think that's a significant part of the problem, the new Gen 3 helmet seems to oversize and overweight.
How does the Rockwell-Collins gen 3 helmet compare in weight to the old RAF Mk3C that I wore in training, or the Mk4A fitted with NVG (Night Vision Goggles)?maffski said:
Also, according to Martin Bakers promo film it's the first time there has been a Neck Injury Criteria to fail.
That's probably because (aside from the MB Mk16A fitted to Typhoon) the earlier seats entered service before NVG became common in FJ.http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=91...
ATLANTIC OCEAN (NNS) -- USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) (Ike) accomplished its first arrested landing of an F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, Oct. 2.
The arrested landing is part of the second phase of at-sea Developmental Testing (DT-II) for the F-35C, which is expected to last two weeks. These test phases ensure aircraft meet specifications and identify mission critical issues sufficiently early in the test phase to deliver fully capable aircraft in time for their scheduled initial operating capability (IOC).
Wonder if they have placed any of the "power carts" on the top deck this time
ATLANTIC OCEAN (NNS) -- USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) (Ike) accomplished its first arrested landing of an F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, Oct. 2.
The arrested landing is part of the second phase of at-sea Developmental Testing (DT-II) for the F-35C, which is expected to last two weeks. These test phases ensure aircraft meet specifications and identify mission critical issues sufficiently early in the test phase to deliver fully capable aircraft in time for their scheduled initial operating capability (IOC).
Wonder if they have placed any of the "power carts" on the top deck this time
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff