Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?

[maser_spyder]

bluesatin said:

These people will supply all you need!

http://www.robbins.co.uk/marine/sheet_materials.as...

What a superb website!

Lots of ideas there, I need to talk to some people about this....

[maser_spyder]

Simpo Two said:

Good question. Where do the Americans get their mahogany from that we can't?

Teak is a classic boat-building material but that's probably restricted as well (though there seems to be plenty of garden furniture in it).

There's lots of oak about - and of course it built Britain's 'Wooden Walls' - so I can't see why that wouldn't work.

Their mahogany, I guess South America. For us, we get more Nordic, Russian and French woods, stuff like that, so teak is always going to be more expensive. I found that Robbins site quotes on Douglas Fir, which I seem to remember was on the alternatives list with the plan suppliers, so that could be a good start.

Plans are about 300 bucks, so I need to work out if it's feasible before I start spending money!

[hidetheelephants]

You're mad; owning a boat is economic insanity, a wooden boat doubly so. Selway Fisher have some attractive designs if building your own appeals.

[Perec]

hidetheelephants said:

You're mad; owning a boat is economic insanity, a wooden boat doubly so.

Oh I don't know. Riva Aquaramas were £250k when new, have always been £250k, but look what's happening to prices now...

[OneDs]

I've got a Selway design I'm pondering, if you are after rounded hull shape then go with the strip plank process with western red cedar, robbins is expensive, if you can source and rip/mill the timber yourself then you can save loads, ie.. use a table saw, bandsaw and router table. If you want to cold mould then strip first and then veneer, West Systems Epoxy & Glass fibre sheathing for the hull in and out will strengthen and protect your investment. You can leave the inside clear coated with epoxy & glass so you can enjoy the wood effect.

Oak is good for small external bits or where strength is required (frames/thwarts) the hull itself needs to be light (in this context).

Have a look at ultralight boat building for theoretical background.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultralight-Boatbuilding-Th...

Edited by OneDs on Monday 21st October 14:20

[maser_spyder]

Materials price up to about £5k, so add on at least 20% contingency.

Plus screws/nails/epoxy, another £500-ish.

Engine/exhaust/tank £6000?

Steering/fittings £500?

Interior £1000?

So, I make that about £14k. Plus labour. Seems cheap?

[OneDs]

maser_spyder said:

Materials price up to about £5k, so add on at least 20% contingency.

Plus screws/nails/epoxy, another £500-ish.

Engine/exhaust/tank £6000?

Steering/fittings £500?

Interior £1000?

So, I make that about £14k. Plus labour. Seems cheap?

You may be a bit short on some of those but looks reasonable.

eg. Engine might be as much as £10k more when fitted and finished and even more if brand new and highly powered, although a second hand cheaper unit could be sourced.

It may take you about 600+hrs how much is that worth?

Trailer/storage & running costs, water access, safety equipment, contingency and general maintenance/refresh

http://www.selway-fisher.com/McClassic.htm#TARANTO

Ed: oh and the tools/workshop refit costs

Alternatively enroll here

http://www.boatbuildingacademy.com/

http://www.boatbuildingacademy.com/students/studen...

Edited by OneDs on Monday 21st October 15:34

[maser_spyder]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Maser,

You could always consider this and your Lambo in the most fabulous way possible


http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...

You git. I've now been looking for Lambo engines and the idea has stuck a bit.

A nice Murci engine for sale in California, low mileage, all the bits, perfect....

Might need a re-design on the boat though!

[mickrick]

I like your man maths! You have conveniently forgotten a lot of hardware

Personally I´d stay away from Mahogany. I got rid of the mahogany (admittedly ply) deck house on my Olsen sailboat, as it tends to go white, which I found ugly.
Teak is eye wateringly expensive! Just the materials for my little deck house came to 4k.
Also having just finished a 7 year house renovation I can tell you Oak is bd stuff to work with. It blunts your tools as soon as they´re in sight of it!
It´s very hard and unforgiving, and I didn´t find it nice to work with, although it does look beautiful. But it goes black if you get it wet.

If I were going to build a boat from scratch now, I would use red cedar speed strip http://www.sykestimber.co.uk/wood-for-boat-buildin... sheathed in glass roving and epoxy.
I´m very interested in using it for kayaks in the future, and I see Guys paring it down with a penknife!
If you wish, you can make some lovely patterns with red and white cedar strip, then clear coat it for a glasslike finish.
Just make yourself a strong back to attach plywood stations, and strip away! I would the laminate frames too if needed.

[maser_spyder]

Yeah, that was sort of a back of a fag packet calculation that was never going to be the final bill. Still, it sounded quite cheap (minus labour), right?

Mahogany. Hmm. I was sort of looking for a better alternative for planking, something that looks nice varnished? I guess teak looks ok on a deck, but I guess not so much on hull strakes. And bloody expensive.

If I could get away with something else for planking, a teak deck, and a load of clear coat, that would be perfect.

I'm about to push the buttons on plans....

[OneDs]

Robbins has some ply faced teak with caulking pre-inlaid for the deck is considerably cheaper, strip plank it veneer it, clear glass and epoxy the hull in and out, several layers of varnish on the deck. Your own riva for 10% of the price

[maser_spyder]

OneDs said:

Robbins has some ply faced teak with caulking pre-inlaid for the deck is considerably cheaper, strip plank it veneer it, clear glass and epoxy the hull in and out, several layers of varnish on the deck. Your own riva for 10% of the price

I spotted that on their website, thought it would be good for cabin soles too. If a little OTT. Would look nice though.

Or teak veneer?

[RichB]

Huntsman said:

You want a Fairey Huntsman or Huntress. I'll do the rbuild for you at £30/hr. Mine

Fantastic! I built a balsa wood model of that very boat when I was about 10. It was about 3' long, the plans were in Meccano Magazine. The basic hull was for a racer called Brave Moppie then you could add a superstructure to various designs and I chose the Huntsman

Brings back memories!

[maser_spyder]

RichB said:

Fantastic! I built a balsa wood model of that very boat when I was about 10. It was about 3' long, the planes were in Meccano Magazine. The basic hull was for a racer called Brave Moppie then you could add a superstructure to various designs and I chose the Huntsman

Brings back memories!

I made a 'Javelin' with a 10cc nitro engine. All good practice for what's coming up, I guess!

[OneDs]

The veneer is for the hull to cold mould over the strip plank, have a look at the fairle 55 video posted last week. Whose plans are you buying, ask them for material suggestions based on the look you want to achieve, Jordan boats to pre-cut Cnc ply kits for some designers.

[Huntsman]

RichB said:

Fantastic! I built a balsa wood model of that very boat when I was about 10. It was about 3' long, the plans were in Meccano Magazine. The basic hull was for a racer called Brave Moppie then you could add a superstructure to various designs and I chose the Huntsman

Brings back memories!

You got a bit mixed up, Blue Moppie was a Bertram 31, not a Fairey Huntsman, both similar hull forms and both hulls originate from the Raqy Hunt drawing board.

I have been meaning to build a model of her.

[mickrick]

maser_spyder said:

Yeah, that was sort of a back of a fag packet calculation that was never going to be the final bill. Still, it sounded quite cheap (minus labour), right?

Mahogany. Hmm. I was sort of looking for a better alternative for planking, something that looks nice varnished? I guess teak looks ok on a deck, but I guess not so much on hull strakes. And bloody expensive.

If I could get away with something else for planking, a teak deck, and a load of clear coat, that would be perfect.

I'm about to push the buttons on plans....

Check out the cedar strip I linked to. It looks lovely clear coated.

To give you some idea, albeit a smaller scale, have a look at the canoe story on this link http://www.cedarstrip.co.uk/index.html

Edited by mickrick on Wednesday 23 October 08:20

[RichB]

Huntsman said:

You got a bit mixed up, Blue Moppie was a Bertram 31, not a Fairey Huntsman, both similar hull forms and both hulls originate from the Raqy Hunt drawing board.

I have been meaning to build a model of her.

If I got a bit mixed up that the Meccano Magazine's fault, they published the plans The racer was definitely Brave Moppie not Blue Moppie but they probably thought adding a few superstructure options made it more interesting?

[mickrick]

I believe there was also a "Lucky Moppie" I think Brave Moppie was the first 31, which was built in wood, and with which Dick Bertram won the Cowes Torquay in 1961? which was then used as a plug to build the moulds for all the later glass fibre hulls. I stand to be corrected on those facts though.

One of my favourite boats the Bertram 31. There´s a sorry looking one here in Mallorca which needs saving.....

[maser_spyder]

I've prepped a bit of space in the workshop....

Checked out West Systems epoxy.

Checked out Cedar (thanks Mickrick!), which looks nice. BUT, there's SO much work to do in just making the frames and cold moulding, it'll be a long time before I have to think about planking/deck, so not a decision that would have to be made any time soon.

The plan is to make the frames from Douglas Fir. Cut out templates on thin MDF. Rough-cut the real frame on a bandsaw, then use a router (with a pattern bit) with the template to finish the frames off perfectly.

The plans I'm getting are 'full size', so no lofting required. But, I've thought of an easier way of doing this.... I have access to a large printer that will print directly on to vinyl. If I had PDF copies of the plans, I could print the frames on to clear vinyl, stick this to the timber, and cut around directly. Still using the template/router method, but a lot quicker than tracing. I'm pretty sure the supplier wouldn't let the plans loose in PDF format though, otherwise they'd be digitally traced and set up for CNC, an IP nightmare. So, I could scan the plans myself, but I only have an A4 scanner, not QUITE big enough.

Anyway, lots to be thinking about, looking forward to yet another winter project!