Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?
Discussion
Huntsman said:
I'm not some H and S flag waving moron, but do go careful with MDF dust and dust in general, teak makes me sneeze.
Totally agree, and part of the reason I didn't start until I had the proper dust extractor.My grandad suffered from emphesemia for many years, what a bloody miserable disease it was too, no chance I'm risking that. So, mask on, extractor on every time I cut and sand.
Not much done today, I've been busy playing with these....
Lots and lots of ride ons, and a few other bits, furniture, bikes, skis, snowboards, wooden stuff, but they all go from a huge warehouse in Southampton. Tigris Toys (shameless plug....). Easy to find.
Update tonight, finished a few bits off. Starting on the templates for upper frames and bracing. All going ridiculously well so far (no fingers lost, no blood, no disasters). At this rate I'll be ready for proper timber in a week or two! Will get it ordered tomorrow.
So, here's the hull frame templates, which gives you an idea of the shape of underneath.
And an idea of how these are drawn. MDF on the table, covered with carbon paper. Plans directly over the top and make outlines. Remove plans, join the dots. Cut with the jigsaw. Offer up to the template, sand and fine tune where needed. I'm working to about 0.5mm accuracy according to the plans, probably way over the top, but I'd rather get it spot on now and make it easier later.
This slightly odd shaped piece is the first frame, hence the double form all in a single piece, it's not worth joining two together when you can just use a slightly wider length of timber.
I've now cut 12 formers, and have about 14 left to go (the later ones are a little easier), so hoping to have a full set of frame templates done in around a week.
The plan is to finish the frame templates, and whilst I'm waiting for timber, to make up the jig that I'll do the build on. I thinking of getting a couple of RSJs and some really big casters, so I have a sturdy frame that I can wheel around the workshop as and when I need to. Building it in one place just isn't feasible unfortunately. I have loads of space, but there's always something else going on!
And to prove I'm being extra careful with the MDF dust, and that it's really me doing this....
Update tonight, finished a few bits off. Starting on the templates for upper frames and bracing. All going ridiculously well so far (no fingers lost, no blood, no disasters). At this rate I'll be ready for proper timber in a week or two! Will get it ordered tomorrow.
So, here's the hull frame templates, which gives you an idea of the shape of underneath.
And an idea of how these are drawn. MDF on the table, covered with carbon paper. Plans directly over the top and make outlines. Remove plans, join the dots. Cut with the jigsaw. Offer up to the template, sand and fine tune where needed. I'm working to about 0.5mm accuracy according to the plans, probably way over the top, but I'd rather get it spot on now and make it easier later.
This slightly odd shaped piece is the first frame, hence the double form all in a single piece, it's not worth joining two together when you can just use a slightly wider length of timber.
I've now cut 12 formers, and have about 14 left to go (the later ones are a little easier), so hoping to have a full set of frame templates done in around a week.
The plan is to finish the frame templates, and whilst I'm waiting for timber, to make up the jig that I'll do the build on. I thinking of getting a couple of RSJs and some really big casters, so I have a sturdy frame that I can wheel around the workshop as and when I need to. Building it in one place just isn't feasible unfortunately. I have loads of space, but there's always something else going on!
And to prove I'm being extra careful with the MDF dust, and that it's really me doing this....
TIMBEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!
Turned out that Robbins Timber had the best quote and fastest delivery time, so they got the business.
One thing they were stupidly expensive on though was 18mm ply, more than double elsewhere. Strange.
Almost everything else they were 10% cheaper on, or more.
Even better, the guy who looked at the quote obviously checked the boat specs and worked out the most suitable lengths based on what's available, so did most of the hard work for me. Excellent service.
I've got ply ply ply ordered (loads of it), and a heap of douglas fir in various lengths and sizes.
Lead time of 7-10 days, so I should be getting it just before Christmas.
I really need to get the templates finished now, so I can start cutting as soon as the lumber arrives!
I'll probably draw around the timber with a pencil, rough cut with the band saw, and fine cut with the table router. Or alternatively, if it's a tricky bit, I'll jigsaw it then router it.
Next on my list - silicon bronze screws and nails. Stupidly expensive but the only stuff that'll do the job.
Looks like I'm going to need epoxy before too long as well, the gussets need to be epoxied and screwed to the frames, which means learning how to do it properly.....
On the lookout for a heating oil tank so I can fire up the space heater, which will jolly things along nicely.
Current budget stands at c. £3000 with all timber purchased and about half the ply I'll need. Includes all the new tools I bought too.
Turned out that Robbins Timber had the best quote and fastest delivery time, so they got the business.
One thing they were stupidly expensive on though was 18mm ply, more than double elsewhere. Strange.
Almost everything else they were 10% cheaper on, or more.
Even better, the guy who looked at the quote obviously checked the boat specs and worked out the most suitable lengths based on what's available, so did most of the hard work for me. Excellent service.
I've got ply ply ply ordered (loads of it), and a heap of douglas fir in various lengths and sizes.
Lead time of 7-10 days, so I should be getting it just before Christmas.
I really need to get the templates finished now, so I can start cutting as soon as the lumber arrives!
I'll probably draw around the timber with a pencil, rough cut with the band saw, and fine cut with the table router. Or alternatively, if it's a tricky bit, I'll jigsaw it then router it.
Next on my list - silicon bronze screws and nails. Stupidly expensive but the only stuff that'll do the job.
Looks like I'm going to need epoxy before too long as well, the gussets need to be epoxied and screwed to the frames, which means learning how to do it properly.....
On the lookout for a heating oil tank so I can fire up the space heater, which will jolly things along nicely.
Current budget stands at c. £3000 with all timber purchased and about half the ply I'll need. Includes all the new tools I bought too.
Huntsman said:
What's happening? Is it nearly finished?
Cheeky bugger. 
Just had a call an hour ago, timber is coming tomorrow.
So, Christmas out of the way and I'll start using my templates to cut out the frames for real.
Sorted out my space heater so I can do a bit of epoxying to make up the frames properly.
Launch in April?
(Not sure what year)
I got wood!benters said:
i that the shell of an MG/Sprite next to your fork lift a few pages back ? whats the story with that then ?
Eagle-eyes. Frogeye project. Another distraction for the dark and lonely nights! I have about 90% of the bits now, but the next task needs bits I don't have....Christmas pretty much over bar the shouting for me now, so can finally get back in to my little projects again. Frogeye and boat should start to take some shape over the next few months, at last.
benters said:
Cool Car a frogeye. . . .almost completed my Midget restoration, are you going to run it modified or standard ? might have some odd bits kicking about if you need anything, not sure of exactly what !! there is a few boxes here and there with odd bits in.
Totally original and standard, proper 50s style. I'm lucky that if I want to tear around in a convertible, I've got a bit of choice, so I really don't need it modified. It'll be quite nice to take it steady for a change. Might take you up on that, I'm bound to be missing odd bits here and there. Are you local to Winchester?
benters said:
maser_spyder said:
Totally original and standard, proper 50s style. I'm lucky that if I want to tear around in a convertible, I've got a bit of choice, so I really don't need it modified. It'll be quite nice to take it steady for a change.
Might take you up on that, I'm bound to be missing odd bits here and there. Are you local to Winchester?
Chertsey, Surrey so not to far away. . .hope to complete the car early next year, needs a roof and some tinkering with a few oddities, then will use it. . .a run to Winchester perhaps as its first trip !Might take you up on that, I'm bound to be missing odd bits here and there. Are you local to Winchester?
Anyway, it's a sprite, what do you need a roof for anyway?
Come and take a look!
I've almost got the frames all cut out and ready. I've got the screws/nails/coach bolts on order.
Actually READ the instructions over Christmas (minus several million 'man' points, sorry), and realised that the coach bolts on the list weren't for engine fitting at all, they're for securing the frames to the motor stringers (motor stringers are the long, 'base' timbers that run bow to stern), so before I go much further, I really needed to get the coach bolts sorted. Frames to motor stringers is basically the very first step of assembly.
I picked up my space heater yesterday, off to get a 3-phase plug so I can get it running, then it's all go go go again.
So no real action, but I now have a really good idea how it all goes together and a good plan on how to attack it.
Even with my massive workshop, I'm going to struggle for space. 7m is a BIG boat when you start looking at it, it's 2 car lengths allowing a bit of working space. And to do it properly, the jig really has to be secured firmly to the floor, so it's immovable once you've started the build. Basically, once I've started, I really need to get cracking or it's going to be in the way quite quickly.
I've got aluminium boats arriving in about April, so ideally, I'd have the frame and bottom on it before then.... Once the bottom is done, you can flip it over on to a trailer or jig to complete the deck and fit out, and at this point it's movable.
Not worth any pics yet, still looks like firewood!
Exciting day, first frames cut out.
Pics.
The long, larger timbers. Keel, motor stringers, frame blocking, frame and transom timbers, etc.
And the smaller timbers, for carlings, deck clamps, sheer clamps, battens, etc. Also loads of 3mm ply for the cold mould.
My MDF frame cut-outs. This wasn't part of the instructions. The idea is that you trace directly on to the frame timber. But frame timber is heavy, cumbersome, and I figured there would be loads of wasted material doing it that way. With my templates, it's far, far quicker and easier to make the real ones.
The other bonus of this is if/when I make a hash of a trace/cut out, it's just a bit of wasted time and MDF, no problem. I can make the template absolutely perfect before using a tracing bit on the router table to make the real one.
The first frame cut out, routered, and ready for lining up to fit together. A small cock-up, but nothing major. Looks pretty good and only took about 20 minutes to make all three parts.
Gusset next, but I want to cut out all the hull and side timbers first, then I'll start on the ply bits with some clear space.
Next on the list is to complete the frame timbers so they're ready to go.
Then cut out the ply, which includes transom, stem, breasthook and gussets for the frames. Once that's done, I should have the silicon bronze nails/screws so I can make up the frames.
After that, line up and cut the notches on the motor stringers and assembly can finally begin.....
Pics.
The long, larger timbers. Keel, motor stringers, frame blocking, frame and transom timbers, etc.
And the smaller timbers, for carlings, deck clamps, sheer clamps, battens, etc. Also loads of 3mm ply for the cold mould.
My MDF frame cut-outs. This wasn't part of the instructions. The idea is that you trace directly on to the frame timber. But frame timber is heavy, cumbersome, and I figured there would be loads of wasted material doing it that way. With my templates, it's far, far quicker and easier to make the real ones.
The other bonus of this is if/when I make a hash of a trace/cut out, it's just a bit of wasted time and MDF, no problem. I can make the template absolutely perfect before using a tracing bit on the router table to make the real one.
The first frame cut out, routered, and ready for lining up to fit together. A small cock-up, but nothing major. Looks pretty good and only took about 20 minutes to make all three parts.
Gusset next, but I want to cut out all the hull and side timbers first, then I'll start on the ply bits with some clear space.
Next on the list is to complete the frame timbers so they're ready to go.
Then cut out the ply, which includes transom, stem, breasthook and gussets for the frames. Once that's done, I should have the silicon bronze nails/screws so I can make up the frames.
After that, line up and cut the notches on the motor stringers and assembly can finally begin.....
A couple more frames made today, starting to rattle them off fairly quickly now.
Should be all done cutting by the time the silicon bronze fixings arrive, then I'm ready to start epoxying for the first time, to assemble the frames. Will have a practice on some scrap first. I've got the heater set up now, so it's toasty around the workbench.
Should be all done cutting by the time the silicon bronze fixings arrive, then I'm ready to start epoxying for the first time, to assemble the frames. Will have a practice on some scrap first. I've got the heater set up now, so it's toasty around the workbench.
OneDs said:
Great progress maser, how many frames have you got to make and I assume they then get fixed on to a strong back upside down for forming the hull? Got any thoughts on how you will flip it?
Nine frames including the transom. But I've already done the templates, so the hard work is done, it's really just drawing a line, rough cutting, and finishing with the router for each 'real' part now, which isn't taking too long. I should have most of the parts ready by the weekend at the latest.Two motor stringers, like strongbacks, upside down as you guessed. Immovable during this stage as it's all got to be set up straight, true and square and made strong before you can move it.
I'll probably use the forklift to parbuckle it over on to a jig with big casters (already bought these) so I can move it around the workshop. Shouldn't be too hard actually.
The really big job is getting all the stringers and frames lined up and true before I start fixing things in to place. Get that wrong and it'll cause major issues later, so I have to be incredibly careful on that stage of the build.
I'm working to about 0.5mm accuracy on the frames, about the width of a fine pencil line, and everything is replicated for both sides with the same former, so no reason for anything to be out of true when I start assembly. Fingers crossed.
Eleven said:
maser_spyder said:
A couple more frames made today, starting to rattle them off fairly quickly now.
Should be all done cutting by the time the silicon bronze fixings arrive, then I'm ready to start epoxying for the first time, to assemble the frames. Will have a practice on some scrap first. I've got the heater set up now, so it's toasty around the workbench.
I must say Maser, I have genuine admiration for your energy and willingness to have a very good stab at something you fancy doing. I wish I had your levels of get up go (and I don't consider myself to be lazy by any means). Are you one of those people who cannot sit still for a minute?Should be all done cutting by the time the silicon bronze fixings arrive, then I'm ready to start epoxying for the first time, to assemble the frames. Will have a practice on some scrap first. I've got the heater set up now, so it's toasty around the workbench.
Out of interest, are you running your toy business or just messing about in your man cave whilst someone else does that?
Toys are quiet now, but I keep an eye on the day to day, it's just not a full time job at this time of year. Actually, it's part of the reason I plan projects for the quiet times of year, otherwise I'd go crazy staring at a screen waiting for something to happen. At this time of year, I'm over-staffed and under-busy, so I'm best kept out of harms way working on something else.
At the busy times, I work like a crazy man, so I sort of do a year's work in six months and take the rest off. Not many employers would let you do that.
Just about to launch the junior ski and snowboard range this week, so I am a bit busy, promise!
Eleven said:
I suspect you are less lazy than you think, you certainly don't come across like that.
What ski and snowboard range is that then?
I love my job though, get to What ski and snowboard range is that then?
Just putting some packages together, boring old job but somebody has to do it. A bit cold for boat building today, might try and get there tomorrow though.
http://www.tigristoys.co.uk/toy-departments/outdoo...
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