Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?
Discussion
bluesatin said:
Maser
Which plan did you buy?
This one. I'm now thinking it was perhaps a little ambitious.... But, in for a penny, and all that. Will get started on the frames as soon as my new jigsaw turns up. Luckily I had a stack of MDF left over from a shop fit that's the perfect size, so will recycle it for this.Which plan did you buy?
I've studied the plans today, the bits I couldn't work out I've pondered on, and I think I've nailed it. It's difficult, but not impossible. It's a lot more vague than I was expecting though, I guess the idea is to give you the basic frame and hull, and you work out the rest yourself. I thought my hand would be held a bit more if I'm honest. It's literally a copy of some hand drawn plans, with hand written scribbles in pencil. I'll get some pics when I've sorted the workshop properly!
OneDs said:
When I first opened my plans I thought is was a foreign language. Takes a bit of time to sink in, they really are a work of art. The planning phase of the build is going to take a few months on it's own. It really is a fully fledged project, deciding when and how you are going to build individual components and how rigidly you're going stick to the design and instructions.
For example, I'd like to use some proper joinery, like tenons, dovetails, tongue & groove etc.. rather than solely rely on the butt, scarph & epoxy methods described on things like the thwarts, seats and centreboard case, this means that the construction and timing of these elements needs to be considered before the first mould is placed on the strong back, I'm also considered stretching the plans by a ft and this is major exercise in a-level maths I thought I'd never use again.
Mine are not a work of art. A least, not art as I know it!For example, I'd like to use some proper joinery, like tenons, dovetails, tongue & groove etc.. rather than solely rely on the butt, scarph & epoxy methods described on things like the thwarts, seats and centreboard case, this means that the construction and timing of these elements needs to be considered before the first mould is placed on the strong back, I'm also considered stretching the plans by a ft and this is major exercise in a-level maths I thought I'd never use again.
Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 29th October 16:51
Planning, I don't work like that.
I'll be getting started on the basics within a week, if nothing else but to do the boring stuff and get it out of the way. I'll be building exactly to the plans (such as they are), so that'll make it a bit easier (ha!).As for joinery, well, maybe on the next one (double ha!). This one I'll keep simple, well within my skill set (triple ha!) and try not to complicate things.
I'm lucky in that there's an exceptional build diary on one of these online, which will take a fair amount of the guess work out of it. There's a long way to go....
bluesatin said:
Maser Which plan did you buy?
Further back he said he was going for the Belle Isle design http://www.boatdesigns.com/Belle-Isle/products/724...Certainly beautiful (especially with a nice V8 engine in it!) it's got to sound like one of those water taxis they have in Venice, putt... putt... putt... on the canals and then when you get out into the open water the open up the taps and WOW!!! Roar...
Edited by RichB on Tuesday 29th October 18:36
Simpo Two said:
It looks lovely; I'd like to tackle something like this but don't have the space or expertise.
One thing - this isn't California so what do you do when it rains?
I have plenty of space. And I fitted some new doors once, does that count?One thing - this isn't California so what do you do when it rains?
Um, if it rains, well, I guess you get wet? (Dammit.)
I notice mention of cabinet making techniques. Put those out of your mind straight away as boat building demands different techniques.
This is not a piece of furniture that will stay in a controlled humidity. Think of it as a flexible construction, the boat will want to twist and bend in many directions and there are certain directions you will want to partially allow it and others you don't.
Now as you were asking - Engines.
This boat is going to need around 200 hp at most with any more just being there to make noise and burn fuel rather than produce speed. Stick to known marinised versions. The one good reason we don't just go out and marinise the latest offering from Bugatti is that the torque curves are all wrong for marine use. Think about the fact you have only one propellor or fifth gear if you will and you'll immediately see that an automotive engine cam, timing and fuelling arrangement is next to useless. That besides the fact you need to be able a mount a marine gearbox to it.
In all seriousness though you will want to consider the power plant sooner than later to ensure the mountings are integrated within the construction and relief for shafts, exhausts etc are correctly placed. I'd be looking for something in the order of a 5l Ford, Chevy or Chrysler suitably dressed to match your stunning shining woodwork.
This is not a piece of furniture that will stay in a controlled humidity. Think of it as a flexible construction, the boat will want to twist and bend in many directions and there are certain directions you will want to partially allow it and others you don't.
Now as you were asking - Engines.
This boat is going to need around 200 hp at most with any more just being there to make noise and burn fuel rather than produce speed. Stick to known marinised versions. The one good reason we don't just go out and marinise the latest offering from Bugatti is that the torque curves are all wrong for marine use. Think about the fact you have only one propellor or fifth gear if you will and you'll immediately see that an automotive engine cam, timing and fuelling arrangement is next to useless. That besides the fact you need to be able a mount a marine gearbox to it.
In all seriousness though you will want to consider the power plant sooner than later to ensure the mountings are integrated within the construction and relief for shafts, exhausts etc are correctly placed. I'd be looking for something in the order of a 5l Ford, Chevy or Chrysler suitably dressed to match your stunning shining woodwork.
MOTORVATOR said:
I notice mention of cabinet making techniques. Put those out of your mind straight away as boat building demands different techniques.
This is not a piece of furniture that will stay in a controlled humidity. Think of it as a flexible construction, the boat will want to twist and bend in many directions and there are certain directions you will want to partially allow it and others you don't.
That was me not maser, not wishing to detract, but those joinery needs were for non critical but visible internal joints in a 15ft grf epoxy encased strip planked hull sailing dinghy, that will spend 95% of the time on a trailer in a dry garage. Even then epoxy will be the order of the day for encasing and reinforcing the joints which are really just for show. I'm sure maser's own build given the usage and power will be much more demanding on the internal structures and built as such.This is not a piece of furniture that will stay in a controlled humidity. Think of it as a flexible construction, the boat will want to twist and bend in many directions and there are certain directions you will want to partially allow it and others you don't.
Maser good luck, hopefully you'll keep us updated with your progress. Re the plans, I got the scale drawings, offsets, explosions of all construction elements and some full scale elements, originally hand drawn/drafted on A1 paper, together with a corresponding set of reasonably detailed build instructions. They are not what I'd call a step by step handheld build technical construction manual in anyway, which is why I likened them more to a work of art and my need to thoroughly plan out all the build before starting. I applaud you're get stuck in approach.
Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 29th October 22:46
maser_spyder said:
Um, if it rains, well, I guess you get wet? (Dammit.)
I'm not sure where/how you intend to use the boat but doubtless at some time you will be grateful for some protection against chilly wind or unexpected rain showers.It appears to have three compartments; I guess the front two are for people (why not one big space?) and a rear one either for people you don't like or luggage.
I don't think a windscreen would be out of place; from that there must be some kind of demountable structure you could devise from s/s tube fitting into discreet holders, and some canvas that would press-stud onto the top of the windscreen, and then all pack away into that rear compartment when not needed. A little gazebo if you like!
maser_spyder said:
This one. I'm now thinking it was perhaps a little ambitious.... But, in for a penny, and all that. Will get started on the frames as soon as my new jigsaw turns up. Luckily I had a stack of MDF left over from a shop fit that's the perfect size, so will recycle it for this.
I've studied the plans today, the bits I couldn't work out I've pondered on, and I think I've nailed it. It's difficult, but not impossible. It's a lot more vague than I was expecting though, I guess the idea is to give you the basic frame and hull, and you work out the rest yourself. I thought my hand would be held a bit more if I'm honest. It's literally a copy of some hand drawn plans, with hand written scribbles in pencil. I'll get some pics when I've sorted the workshop properly!
That looks stunning! Good luck! I've studied the plans today, the bits I couldn't work out I've pondered on, and I think I've nailed it. It's difficult, but not impossible. It's a lot more vague than I was expecting though, I guess the idea is to give you the basic frame and hull, and you work out the rest yourself. I thought my hand would be held a bit more if I'm honest. It's literally a copy of some hand drawn plans, with hand written scribbles in pencil. I'll get some pics when I've sorted the workshop properly!
MOTORVATOR said:
In all seriousness though you will want to consider the power plant sooner than later to ensure the mountings are integrated within the construction and relief for shafts, exhausts etc are correctly placed. I'd be looking for something in the order of a 5l Ford, Chevy or Chrysler suitably dressed to match your stunning shining woodwork.
Crusader Engines have a good rep, better than mercruiser and volvo anyway. Lancing Marine have watercooled manifolds listed for the Jag V12... 
hidetheelephants said:
Crusader Engines have a good rep, better than mercruiser and volvo anyway. Lancing Marine have watercooled manifolds listed for the Jag V12...
Or perhaps something from Morin Boatshttp://morinboats.com/Morin_Boats/Engines.html
My first cock-up!
Ordered a Bosch jigsaw because it was a very good deal. Arrived today, perfect. Thought it was an odd shaped plug. Looked closer. 110V.
So, my bargain jigsaw has just cost me another £50 on a transformer, never mind.
Getting some MDF tomorrow, have got carbon paper, plans, band saw, jig saw, routers, just need to clear up the workshop a bit and I'm ready to go.
Going to start with templates for the frames on MDF. If I mess it up, no harm done. If not, it'll save ages when I come to make them from the proper timber because I can just cut around the outline with the band saw, and trim it with a pattern bit on the table router using the MDF template piece.
Off to buy a sanding station next, and possibly another dust extractor or two, I'm not sanding MDF without some really good dust proofing.
Ordered a Bosch jigsaw because it was a very good deal. Arrived today, perfect. Thought it was an odd shaped plug. Looked closer. 110V.
So, my bargain jigsaw has just cost me another £50 on a transformer, never mind.
Getting some MDF tomorrow, have got carbon paper, plans, band saw, jig saw, routers, just need to clear up the workshop a bit and I'm ready to go.
Going to start with templates for the frames on MDF. If I mess it up, no harm done. If not, it'll save ages when I come to make them from the proper timber because I can just cut around the outline with the band saw, and trim it with a pattern bit on the table router using the MDF template piece.
Off to buy a sanding station next, and possibly another dust extractor or two, I'm not sanding MDF without some really good dust proofing.
hidetheelephants said:
Just an opporchancity to duplicate all your power tools and buy a yellow brick to trip over and stub your toe on.
I'm clearly in the market for tools at the moment.I went to do a ten minute job with the drill the other day, two hours away. Before I left, I picked up the drill charger, thinking it hasn't been charged for a little while, I'm gonna need it. Got there, drilled two holes, flat battery. Went to get charger, not there.... I'd left the damned thing on the workbench. So, over to B&Q for another Bosch drill.
I'm not short of tools, that's for sure.
Just finishing off another project (two-tiered kart transporter), adding some more sockets, sorting out my air lines, and I'll try to get started next week.
I'm pretty much ready to go, bar the 110v transformer I ordered a week ago and still hasn't arrived.
Pics tomorrow if I get chance!
I'm pretty much ready to go, bar the 110v transformer I ordered a week ago and still hasn't arrived.
Pics tomorrow if I get chance!
maser_spyder said:
Just finishing off another project (two-tiered kart transporter), adding some more sockets, sorting out my air lines, and I'll try to get started next week.
I'm pretty much ready to go, bar the 110v transformer I ordered a week ago and still hasn't arrived.
Pics tomorrow if I get chance!
At least with 110v you won't kill yourself I'm pretty much ready to go, bar the 110v transformer I ordered a week ago and still hasn't arrived.
Pics tomorrow if I get chance!
_Batty_ said:
At least with 110v you won't kill yourself
Hmm, you're more confident about that than I am right now....Workshop nearly clear, just need to sort out the rest of the new sockets so I can plug in all my fancy new woodworking tools, bolt them all to the workbench, stuff like that.
I'm not sure whether I should be laminating the plans or not? Would seem to make sense, given how much I'm expecting to use them. Anybody done this before?
Maser if you've got specific questions then I think you're better off asking over on http://forum.woodenboat.com, more chance of someone having some first hand experience of the process and the same or similar builds.
Laminating might be useful if you think you will have the plans in close proximity to chemicals or tea/food, I'm making use of the scanners at work to PDF them so I can look at them and zoom in to them on the ipad.
Laminating might be useful if you think you will have the plans in close proximity to chemicals or tea/food, I'm making use of the scanners at work to PDF them so I can look at them and zoom in to them on the ipad.
OneDs said:
Maser if you've got specific questions then I think you're better off asking over on http://forum.woodenboat.com ...
But we can still make wild suggestions about what engines to fit Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff