King Air B200 crash, Iceland August 2013

[tdm34]

If the was a cockpit voice recorder then I reckon "WATCH THIS!" or something like may have been said, to me (and i'm no expert) it looks
like he took one risk too many.....

[fatboy69]

To my untrained eye it looks as though, put simply, the pilot fked up.

However no doubt our resident 'expert/i know it all' will put me right on that theory!!!

[dr_gn]

fatboy69 said:

To my untrained eye it looks as though, put simply, the pilot fked up.

However no doubt our resident 'expert/i know it all' will put me right on that theory!!!

dr_gn said:

Feel free to talk us through it

I await the lecture with great anticipation.

[hman]

I spent a whole day doing conversion training in a Beech King Air 200 years ago, its a very capable plane.

I am no expert but I'm not convinced this was a stall, more like a total misjudgement of where the ground was in relation to the plane.

Amazing to hear that anyone survived that crash at all.

[fatboy69]

So, as i said, the pilot fked it up!!!

[Simpo Two]

Yes, I think the PH Air Accident Investigation Board report concludes 'fked up, ran out of sky'.

Next!

[Prawo Jazdy]

doogz said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

And that means WHAT exactly?

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Lighten the fk up. Every thread you comment on in here is just "Look how clever I am, you are all beneath me"

It's getting boring. He was joking.

Yes, God forbid anyone on the internet should know what they're talking about.

[anonymous-user]

RobGT81 said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

You don't understand wing drop at the stall?

Not everyone is as clever as you. Luckily, not everyone is blessed with your keyboard manners.

Ignore her, I do. Patronising and rude in the extreme. Clearly understands planes and flying, but socially inept.

[fatboy b]

doogz said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

And that means WHAT exactly?

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Lighten the fk up. Every thread you comment on in here is just "Look how clever I am, you are all beneath me"

It's getting boring. He was joking.

Thanks doogz, you managed to put into words exactly what I was thinking.

[Simpo Two]

You may not like her factual style but I can't remember her being wrong.

[fatboy b]

Simpo Two said:

You may not like her factual style but I can't remember her being wrong.

If you have the knowledge, then it helps if you also have the skills to communicate that knowledge in a way that doesn't elevate you to level that alienates your audience.

Seems she hasn't acquired those communication skills just yet.

[Silent1]

fatboy b said:

doogz said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

And that means WHAT exactly?

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Lighten the fk up. Every thread you comment on in here is just "Look how clever I am, you are all beneath me"

It's getting boring. He was joking.

Thanks doogz, you managed to put into words exactly what I was thinking.

Wow, let's all gang up on someone because we have an issue with them being correct and a little sharp get over it, the internet doesn't convey emotion well and it's only pixels on a monitor don't be so offended!

[JuniorD]

She is pretty offensive though! I can't image what it would be like to spend five hours in the flight deck with a person such caustic attitude.

[dr_gn]

Silent1 said:

fatboy b said:

doogz said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

And that means WHAT exactly?

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Lighten the fk up. Every thread you comment on in here is just "Look how clever I am, you are all beneath me"

It's getting boring. He was joking.

Thanks doogz, you managed to put into words exactly what I was thinking.

Wow, let's all gang up on someone because we have an issue with them being correct and a little sharp get over it, the internet doesn't convey emotion well and it's only pixels on a monitor don't be so offended!

So have we established beyond doubt that 'they' are indeed correct? If so, assuming the investigation is still in progress we should tell the relevant investigation team. It would save them a lot of time and effort.

[eharding]

Silent1 said:

fatboy b said:

doogz said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

And that means WHAT exactly?

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Lighten the fk up. Every thread you comment on in here is just "Look how clever I am, you are all beneath me"

It's getting boring. He was joking.

Thanks doogz, you managed to put into words exactly what I was thinking.

Wow, let's all gang up on someone because we have an issue with them being correct and a little sharp get over it, the internet doesn't convey emotion well and it's only pixels on a monitor don't be so offended!

I don't think G3G is going to lose any sleep about a few grumpy Spotters and associated Herberts having a bit of a petulant foot stamp and pout session.

[dr_gn]

I'm genuinely interested in why she thinks it's some kind of accelerated stall. Not saying it's wrong (who knows?), just what is contained in the video that suggests that is the casue?

To me it looks like it's yawing to the right in the first few frames, which presumably would be opposite of what might casue the left wing to stall, at least in that kind of turn?

I can't see any evidence of the pilot trying to level the wings, just a nice trajectory into the ground.

Any non-abrasive comments form the pilots out there?

[eharding]

dr_gn said:

I'm genuinely interested in why she thinks it's some kind of accelerated stall. Not saying it's wrong (who knows?), just what is contained in the video that suggests that is the casue?

To me it looks like it's yawing to the right in the first few frames, which presumably would be opposite of what might casue the left wing to stall, at least in that kind of turn?

I can't see any evidence of the pilot trying to level the wings, just a nice trajectory into the ground.

Any non-abrasive comments form the pilots out there?

I think G3G's (now G15G?) comment was rather a reaction to your initial comment about stalling vs. airspeed, not realising that you were being ironic, rather than moronic.

Frankly, as to the accident, if this chap was as cack-handed as to stoof it in from a beat-up in something you really shouldn't be beating things up in who knows that was going on in his head, and therefore what he was doing with his feet.

If he had managed to induce an unintentional flick, I suspect the roll rate immediately before the impact would have been far higher.

By the sound of it, however, the chain of events leading up to the accident started long before this particular flight.

[dr_gn]

eharding said:

dr_gn said:

I'm genuinely interested in why she thinks it's some kind of accelerated stall. Not saying it's wrong (who knows?), just what is contained in the video that suggests that is the casue?

To me it looks like it's yawing to the right in the first few frames, which presumably would be opposite of what might casue the left wing to stall, at least in that kind of turn?

I can't see any evidence of the pilot trying to level the wings, just a nice trajectory into the ground.

Any non-abrasive comments form the pilots out there?

I think G3G's (now G15G?) comment was rather a reaction to your initial comment about stalling vs. airspeed, not realising that you were being ironic, rather than moronic.

Frankly, as to the accident, if this chap was as cack-handed as to stoof it in from a beat-up in something you really shouldn't be beating things up in who knows that was going on in his head, and therefore what he was doing with his feet.

If he had managed to induce an unintentional flick, I suspect the roll rate immediately before the impact would have been far higher.

By the sound of it, however, the chain of events leading up to the accident started long before this particular flight.

I'd have thought it would be pretty much vertical if it flicked into a left wing stall within the time frame of the video tbh?

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Which implies she thought the stall happened maybe before the video started, yet I can see no evidence of a panicked attempt at a corrective right roll - or anything for that matter. I wonder at what point the co-pilot realised how it was going to end?

[eharding]

dr_gn said:

I'd have thought it would be pretty much vertical if it flicked into a left wing stall within the time frame of the video tbh?

IMHO it would still be rolling at a high rate as it hit the ground.

dr_gn said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

You think a stall means there is no momentum?

Which implies she thought the stall happened maybe before the video started, yet I can see no evidence of a panicked attempt at a corrective right roll - or anything for that matter. I wonder at what point the co-pilot realised how it was going to end?

No, I think the implication is that GG15G thought you were still in moronic vs. ironic mode. Easy mistake to make sometimes.

FWIW I don't think there was an accelerated asymmetric stall - I suspect this twunt simply flew himself and his crew into the ground through basic mishandling. Not that if he'd managed to flick it into the ground the result would have been much different, except that the P2 probably wouldn't have survived.

Edited by eharding on Thursday 9th January 00:09

[jamieduff1981]

The groundspeed (assuming sensible wind) is fast and the G pulled looks very moderate. I'd put money on it being simply flown in to the ground rather than loss of control.

The B52 comparison is not entirely relevant - that was a specific issue relating to the limited flight envelope of swept wing aircraft with spoileron roll control, something demonstrated recently by crashing a C17 under the same circumstances. It's not a condition a straight winged aileron controlled plane like a Kingair would be afflicted by. All that said however, the general B52 moral of the story is still relevant - i.e. don't dick about