End of the line for the A-10 Warthog?

End of the line for the A-10 Warthog?

Author
Discussion

DamienB

1,189 posts

219 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
There have been no A-10's in the UK since Bentwaters/Woodbridge closed in early 1993.

I think maybe there might have been a display at Mildenhall by a mainland Europe based A-10 in the late 90's, but I certainley can't recall any A-10 displays for at least 15+ years.
There have been occasional deployments and airshow appearances...

Lakenheath has played host to them a few times, notably in 2005:




...and 2008:




Display at RIAT, July 2011:



Low level in Wales, August 2011:


aeropilot

34,574 posts

227 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
I'm aware of all the deployments in the UK, but I can't think of any solo aero's displays by an A-10 at a UK show since 2000 at least, and there weren't many in the 5 or 6 years before that.

Last A-10 demo display I remember was actually at an airshow in the USA back in 1997...!!
(if there was a aeros display at the 'hall in '98 or '99 then it would have been then, but I don't actually remember if there was one?)

eccles

13,733 posts

222 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
I have fond memories of the driver shouting at me very loudly whilst trying to deploy the built in crew ladder... I was absent mindedly pulling at the canopy jettison panel instead of the ladder release one.....oh how laughed afterwards! boxedin

nick heppinstall

8,074 posts

280 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
I'm aware of all the deployments in the UK, but I can't think of any solo aero's displays by an A-10 at a UK show since 2000 at least, and there weren't many in the 5 or 6 years before that.

Last A-10 demo display I remember was actually at an airshow in the USA back in 1997...!!
(if there was a aeros display at the 'hall in '98 or '99 then it would have been then, but I don't actually remember if there was one?)
Cant remember if they did a display but they were at RIAT in 1995. My very shaky pre stabilisation video. Skip to 3 mins and they are airborne about 6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKBTMWW2cb0

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

255 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
I'm aware of all the deployments in the UK, but I can't think of any solo aero's displays by an A-10 at a UK show since 2000 at least, and there weren't many in the 5 or 6 years before that.
They used to exercise in pairs quite close to my house. They stopped doing this shortly after an A10 wiped out a British troop carrier in Iraq.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

255 months

Friday 11th April 2014
quotequote all
williredale said:
I'll just leave this here:
They'll never fit that in a Beetle...

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

262 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
eccles said:
I have fond memories of the driver shouting at me very loudly whilst trying to deploy the built in crew ladder... I was absent mindedly pulling at the canopy jettison panel instead of the ladder release one.....oh how laughed afterwards! boxedin
hehe

I have another but thats not for an open forum....

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

255 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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Go on, Go on....

Go on, Go on, Go on....

JVaughan

6,025 posts

283 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
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[quote]The A-10, a slow-flying airplane designed to stay close enough to the ground for pilots to be able to distinguish friend from foe, often with their own eyes, has saved hundreds of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. And it has performed in a way that modern planes — flying high and fast — never could, supporters say.
[/quote]

They could have said the same about the Harrier !.....

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

262 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
JVaughan][quote said:
The A-10, a slow-flying airplane designed to stay close enough to the ground for pilots to be able to distinguish friend from foe, often with their own eyes, has saved hundreds of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. And it has performed in a way that modern planes — flying high and fast — never could, supporters say.
They could have said the same about the Harrier !.....
Except the harrier had zero redundancy, no gun and was [in it's later versions] a manpad magnet....

Mave

8,208 posts

215 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
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Are you saying the A-10 isn't a manpad magnet? When it had operations in GW2 limited to 12k+ specifically due to manpad threats?

Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

184 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Mave said:
Are you saying the A-10 isn't a manpad magnet? When it had operations in GW2 limited to 12k+ specifically due to manpad threats?
Which shows (as ever) you don't know what you are talking about.

Mave

8,208 posts

215 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Which shows (as ever) you don't know what you are talking about.
Care to elaborate?

andy97

4,703 posts

222 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
To be fair the Harrier was originally developed to fly low and fast (hence the low cockpit and low gust response wing in the GR1/3) and over the top to deliver cluster bombs and SNEB rockets, and not hang around in a turning fight. A more traditional close air support concept of ops than the A-10.

The A-10 couldn't operate from small short field strips either.

Different but complimentary beasts really.



Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 23 April 11:55

Yertis

18,046 posts

266 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Mave said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Which shows (as ever) you don't know what you are talking about.
Care to elaborate?
Here's my advice:


Mave

8,208 posts

215 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Yertis said:
Here's my advice:

I want one of those!
Despite the high exhaust temperature of the harrier though, the IR missile loss rate per sortie of A10 vs GR1 was similar. Threat of S-18 in Libya meant A10s restricted to 15k+. If you're going to stay at medium altitude, doesn't really matter what your IR signature is WRT manpads...

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

255 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
JVaughan said:
somebody said:
The A-10, a slow-flying airplane designed to stay close enough to the ground for pilots to be able to distinguish friend from foe, often with their own eyes, has saved hundreds of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Didn't stop them hitting a British troop carrier in Iraq, did it..?

yellowjack

17,077 posts

166 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
JVaughan said:
somebody said:
The A-10, a slow-flying airplane designed to stay close enough to the ground for pilots to be able to distinguish friend from foe, often with their own eyes, has saved hundreds of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Didn't stop them hitting a British troop carrier in Iraq, did it..?
Two. It was two Warrior IFVs, and it cost the lives of nine members of the 3RRF battle group, 4 Armd Bde...

Fus P.P. Atkinson (RRF)
Fus C.P. Cole (RRF)
Pte N. W. D. Donald (QOHldrs)
Pte M. Ferguson (QOHldrs)
Fus R. A. Gillespie (RRF)
Pte J. W. Lang (QOhldrs)
Fus K. Leech (RRF)
Fus S. T. Satchell (RRF)
Fus L. J. Thompson (RRF)

They were a mixed bag of Fusiliers (of 3rd Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusiliers), and Privates of 1st Battalion Queen's Own Highlanders (attached to 3RRF). All in their teens and early twenties too. As was I.

A further 38 British lives were lost in the 1990/1991 Gulf war.



Mojocvh

16,837 posts

262 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Mave said:
I want one of those!
Despite the high exhaust temperature of the harrier though, the IR missile loss rate per sortie of A10 vs GR1 was similar. Threat of S-18 in Libya meant A10s restricted to 15k+. If you're going to stay at medium altitude, doesn't really matter what your IR signature is WRT manpads...
Nothing wrong with the "hot" nozzle temp-it's where it is situated that's the issue and along with the "cold" nozzle the fuselage heating just makes it a great big IR beacon ...

..."IR missile loss rate per sortie of A10 vs GR1"... Oh Reilly?

At least the GR1/3 were a "wee" bit better at the top end...

Mave

8,208 posts

215 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Mojocvh said:
Mave said:
I want one of those!
Despite the high exhaust temperature of the harrier though, the IR missile loss rate per sortie of A10 vs GR1 was similar. Threat of S-18 in Libya meant A10s restricted to 15k+. If you're going to stay at medium altitude, doesn't really matter what your IR signature is WRT manpads...
Nothing wrong with the "hot" nozzle temp-it's where it is situated that's the issue and along with the "cold" nozzle the fuselage heating just makes it a great big IR beacon ...

..."IR missile loss rate per sortie of A10 vs GR1"... Oh Reilly?

At least the GR1/3 were a "wee" bit better at the top end...
IIRC A-10 had 4 losses and 8(?) damaged compare to 1 harrier loss, for approx 4 times as many sorties. Source is GAO report on air weapon system effectiveness during desert storm. All losses / damage during first 3 (?) days, no subsequent IR losses or damage after ops lifted to 12k ft, although manpads seen as substantial threat for the remainer of desert storm. Overall picture I see is that A-10 was designed for 1) permissive air space, and 2) high attrition fulda gap scenario. Combination of manpad proliferation and political unacceptability of high attrition force ops to higher altitude where A-10 advantages are reduced, and weaknesses (poor non-visual situational awareness) are highlighted frown

Still think its a great bit of kit though, the guys who designed it obviously has a strong vision of how it was going to be used.