Discussion
Disastrous said:
Will a 16 reach 16-18 kts?
In some circumstances yes, but not regularly. Once in a while, you'll be beam reaching out on the wire in 20 knots, feeling like you are flying, then a gust will hit, you'll bear off, the boat will carve through the turn to a broad reach and you'll feel the thing accelerate strongly - then you'll be doing 16 - 18 knots. Heaven.
Sorry, got caught in the moment there. Yes, it will, but the D18 will do that speed more easily (but not as a matter of course). Having said that, with a kite the D16 may get to those heady heights more easily than the D18 - I don't have enough experience with either to say.
I guess that 15 kts will easily feel pretty fast for starters though, coming from keel boats and pissing about on Picos as a youngster?
Have just looked up a Hurricane too - what's the deal with them? They look like the Sprint 15 but sounds like they're awful quick?
Sorry for all the questions - it seems like just as I get down one layer another opens up!
Have just looked up a Hurricane too - what's the deal with them? They look like the Sprint 15 but sounds like they're awful quick?
Sorry for all the questions - it seems like just as I get down one layer another opens up!
Disastrous said:
I guess that 15 kts will easily feel pretty fast for starters though, coming from keel boats and pissing about on Picos as a youngster?
Have just looked up a Hurricane too - what's the deal with them? They look like the Sprint 15 but sounds like they're awful quick?
Sorry for all the questions - it seems like just as I get down one layer another opens up!
Dart 15 is 15ft, the Hurricane is near to 19.5ft.Have just looked up a Hurricane too - what's the deal with them? They look like the Sprint 15 but sounds like they're awful quick?
Sorry for all the questions - it seems like just as I get down one layer another opens up!
The 15 is quite easy, can be single handed and is quite tame (in comparison)
The 5.9 is a lairy twin wire rocket ship. I have not sailed either however I have seen both being sailed.
Hurricane is a big heavy boat with masses of sail area, especially with a spinnaker fitted
Much longer and wider than a Dart 15 and noticeably bigger than a Dart 18, its an 80's design based on the Tornado used up until 2008 in the Olympics. All fiberglass / aluminium (no carbon fibre bits) but still very fast and competitive with all but the fastest modern cats
A cheap way into powerful catamarans - mine cost less than most of the cats we have mentioned so far would, although it was a mates rates bargain.
Having a bit of a resurgence I think as the costs of modern cats escalates
Plenty of power and lots of fun - a fleet of 20 of them charging downwind is a pretty impressive sight
Much longer and wider than a Dart 15 and noticeably bigger than a Dart 18, its an 80's design based on the Tornado used up until 2008 in the Olympics. All fiberglass / aluminium (no carbon fibre bits) but still very fast and competitive with all but the fastest modern cats
A cheap way into powerful catamarans - mine cost less than most of the cats we have mentioned so far would, although it was a mates rates bargain.
Having a bit of a resurgence I think as the costs of modern cats escalates
Plenty of power and lots of fun - a fleet of 20 of them charging downwind is a pretty impressive sight
Edited by Burrow01 on Monday 4th August 22:32
Disastrous said:
I guess that 15 kts will easily feel pretty fast for starters though, coming from keel boats and pissing about on Picos as a youngster?
Have just looked up a Hurricane too - what's the deal with them? They look like the Sprint 15 but sounds like they're awful quick?
Sorry for all the questions - it seems like just as I get down one layer another opens up!
After a keelboat it will seem plenty fast enough, especially as the optimal way to sail them is with one hull just out of the water whilst hanging off of a trapeze Have just looked up a Hurricane too - what's the deal with them? They look like the Sprint 15 but sounds like they're awful quick?
Sorry for all the questions - it seems like just as I get down one layer another opens up!
I've taken a few people out on my Dart who have just started sailing in dinghy's etc and they all comment on how fast it goes, even if we are only out in a force 2.
The other thing I like is how the power kicks in - its like driving a turbo charged car, as the boat goes faster, the apparent wind across the sails increases, giving more power to the sails, making it go faster still - you can really feel the boat being sucked forward and getting faster as it goes.
I'm sure a fast asymetric dinghy has a similar power delivery, but from my point of view you have to be a much, much better sailor to access this in a monohull - its maybe a bit like skiing vs snowboarding where skiing is a more difficult technique taking several years to learn, but you can be snowboarding on black slopes after a few weeks - I simply don't have the time now to learn, or years of experience from the past, to sail an asymetric monohull fast.
Burrow01 said:
I'm sure a fast asymetric dinghy has a similar power delivery, but from my point of view you have to be a much, much better sailor to access this in a monohull - its maybe a bit like skiing vs snowboarding where skiing is a more difficult technique taking several years to learn, but you can be snowboarding on black slopes after a few weeks - I simply don't have the time now to learn, or years of experience from the past, to sail an asymetric monohull fast.
I'd agree with this, I've sailed fast monohulls (RS400, B14, Cherub, Merlin) and cats (Dart 18, Hurricane) and it's definitely easier to go much quicker on a cat.I would suggest that when you're at full chat on the plane in big wind in a quick monohull there is nothing like it in the world. Mono's are more rewarding to sail but for bang per buck and ease of use a cat is the winner.
I'm currently considering a Dart 18 to sail with the wife who isn't really into sailing and has no experience, I wouldn't consider sailing a quick monohull with her as it's just not suitable (imo) for a novice crew.
Ayahuasca said:
Laser.
Not two man. No trapeze. Not particularly fast.
But possibly the purest racing experience, possibly the largest racing fleets, and always someone to race against.
This. I learned on a Laser and there are thousands around and a very competitive fleet. Not two man. No trapeze. Not particularly fast.
But possibly the purest racing experience, possibly the largest racing fleets, and always someone to race against.
Not a big fan of cats. Used to sail on a Hobie 21 with an asymmetric. It was mental fast but when you pitch-poled it was like being fired through a egg-slicer.
TTwiggy said:
I have to say that all this talk of fast cats has made me reconsider the idea of a small boat (I generally only sail keeled caravans). I think I'd want to be in warm waters though!
I was swimming in Loch Lomond in nought but board shorts the other night. Like bath water (for say the surface 50cm anyway)!Disastrous said:
Looking at Hobie 16s today...good grief, why are they all so similar!?
Avoid the Hobie like the plague, there's no front end or rear end buoyancy so they're like sailing a rocking horse and are equally happy capsizing forwards or backwards as well as sideways!Horrible things to sail.
Cyder said:
Disastrous said:
Looking at Hobie 16s today...good grief, why are they all so similar!?
Avoid the Hobie like the plague, there's no front end or rear end buoyancy so they're like sailing a rocking horse and are equally happy capsizing forwards or backwards as well as sideways!Horrible things to sail.
t? How come they're so popular??They're arguably a bit prettier but surprised they're no good!
Disastrous said:
Cyder said:
Disastrous said:
Looking at Hobie 16s today...good grief, why are they all so similar!?
Avoid the Hobie like the plague, there's no front end or rear end buoyancy so they're like sailing a rocking horse and are equally happy capsizing forwards or backwards as well as sideways!Horrible things to sail.
t? How come they're so popular??They're arguably a bit prettier but surprised they're no good!
Not sure why they are so popular - they were pretty much the first commercially successful cat, and were designed to sail / surf through waves in California - Cat design has moved a long way since then, but I suppose at one time they were pretty much the only one you could buy off the shelf. They do have a pretty strong following, mainly as they are so fast I think - I've been over 20kts on one and it was pretty thrilling, but tricky to learn on.
Edited by Burrow01 on Monday 4th August 22:35
I have a Hobie Tiger (Formula 18) cat, and have sailed Darts 15/16/18, Tornados, Hurricanes and others. I have also owned performance dinghy's (ISO, BOSS, RS600, Int 14) in the past, but prefer the all out speed and sail-able wind rage for the cats.
I would say the Dart 16 is a good road to go down, Dart 18 and Hobie 16 are very dated designs (much like Lasers), and all the 'new' breed of cats have spinnakers, so the Dart 16 would be a good base to learn on. Moving on from the Dart 16 would be a Formula 16 or Formula 18 or Hurricane 5.9 SX, all have twin trapeze and kite and are much quicker.
I was toying with the idea of getting one to sail with my kids, but have gone down the Topper / Mirror route instead for the time being.
I would say the Dart 16 is a good road to go down, Dart 18 and Hobie 16 are very dated designs (much like Lasers), and all the 'new' breed of cats have spinnakers, so the Dart 16 would be a good base to learn on. Moving on from the Dart 16 would be a Formula 16 or Formula 18 or Hurricane 5.9 SX, all have twin trapeze and kite and are much quicker.
I was toying with the idea of getting one to sail with my kids, but have gone down the Topper / Mirror route instead for the time being.
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