Question for Eric

[HoHoHo]

Hi Eric

I've read the Spanish tried to build them under license during the war but the Germans couldn't supply themselves with enough let alone any more.

When were the Spanish Hispano Aviación HA-1109's built with Merlin engines and why?

Did they perform any better than the original?

Thanks

[anonymous-user]

The first Merlin Ha-1112s were the HA-1112-M1L which first flew in 1954.

[Eric Mc]

The original Spanish built variants had Hispano engines but it turned out that the Merlin worked really well in the airframe.

[HoHoHo]

Thanks, so a simple answer it would appear and it performed better as well!

Was that because there was a shortage of original engines or it was simply a better choice?

[Eric Mc]

I think there were lots and lots of surplus Merlin engines after the end of WW2 so it made sense for the UK to export as many as they could as we were desperately short of currency.

The Italians also used the Merlin in one of their last piston fighters/trainers, the FIAT G59.

The G59 was a Merlin powered version of the G55 which, like the 109, had been fitted with the Daimler Benz.




It seems that any aircraft that had been fitted with the DB family of engines was eminently suitable to be powered by the Merlin as well.

[HoHoHo]

It's amazing the Merlin seemed to fit so well into various airframes designed for a completely different power plant.

[Eric Mc]

It was even used in an RAF trainer - the Bolton Paul Balliol.

Originally, the aircraft was supposed to have been powered by an Armstrong Siddeley Mamba turboprop but because of all the surplus Merlins the Air Ministry (probably on Treasury insistence ) made Bolton Paul redesign the aircraft to take the Merlin.

[mebe]

Eric Mc said:

It was even used in an RAF trainer - the Bolton Paul Balliol.

Originally, the aircraft was supposed to have been powered by an Armstrong Siddeley Mamba turboprop but because of all the surplus Merlins the Air Ministry (probably on Treasury insistence ) made Bolton Paul redesign the aircraft to take the Merlin.

Amazing how 'pointy' they've made that. Most other installations have (to my eye) a much flatter top profile.

[Dr Jekyll]

HoHoHo said:

It's amazing the Merlin seemed to fit so well into various airframes designed for a completely different power plant.

To put it another way, how many problems could be solved by sticking a Merlin (or 2, or 4) in.

[williamp]

To turn the question around, did daimler benz ever fit their V12 to other aircraft??

[jamieduff1981]

Just in the Ki61 that springs to mind. Daimler never really had the chance though since they were on the losing side of the war and war production ceased.

[Steve_W]

Dr Jekyll said:

HoHoHo said:

It's amazing the Merlin seemed to fit so well into various airframes designed for a completely different power plant.

To put it another way, how many problems could be solved by sticking a Merlin (or 2, or 4) in.

Often wondered what the Westland Whirlwind would have been like with merlins instead of (I think) peregrines. Bit too much like the Mossie perhaps?

[Eric Mc]

jamieduff1981 said:

Just in the Ki61 that springs to mind. Daimler never really had the chance though since they were on the losing side of the war and war production ceased.

Also in the Fw190D and the Macchi 202 and 205 and the Fiat G55 - and even a Spitfire (for trials)

[Dr Jekyll]

Steve_W said:

Often wondered what the Westland Whirlwind would have been like with merlins instead of (I think) peregrines. Bit too much like the Mossie perhaps?

It was considered but part of the reason the Whirlwind was such a good performer was the low frontal area of the Peregrine engines. I saw a model someone had made of a Whirlwind with Merlin engines off a Mosquito and it looked very strange.

Later in the war 'slimline' Merlins were available but by then there were P51s for the escort fighter role. So no need for the Whirlwind.

[Eric Mc]

I've just been reading about the Welkin, which was essentially an enlarged, high altitude Whirlwind fitted with Merlins. It was essentially rejected by the RAF as it was inferior to the Mosquito.

[hidetheelephants]

Steve_W said:

Dr Jekyll said:

HoHoHo said:

It's amazing the Merlin seemed to fit so well into various airframes designed for a completely different power plant.

To put it another way, how many problems could be solved by sticking a Merlin (or 2, or 4) in.

Often wondered what the Westland Whirlwind would have been like with merlins instead of (I think) peregrines. Bit too much like the Mossie perhaps?

A bit like the Welkin, as that was an adaption of the Whirlwind for merlins and high altitude. It would have been a massive redesign as the merlin is much larger and heavier than the peregrine.

[Boatbuoy]

Eric Mc said:

I've just been reading about the Welkin, which was essentially an enlarged, high altitude Whirlwind fitted with Merlins. It was essentially rejected by the RAF as it was inferior to the Mosquito.

"If it looks right, then it probably is".

That doesn't look right!

[hidetheelephants]

It was butt ugly because it had a pressurised cockpit and extra large wingspan to give it a functional and comfortable pilot, a high operating ceiling and manoeuvrability at high altitude; presumably it was judged that the need wasn't there and they cancelled it.