How much boat is required.?
Discussion
Boating around europe. Motor or sail? Obviously one is cheaper in terms of fuel, t'other requires less skill to operate.
How large would it need to be? Before being unusable in anything but flat calm ponds and (far) below superyacht level?
What's the border situation like for uk citizen? I understand most of europe has the schengen agreement (spelt something like that anyway) which allows you to arrive and leave as you please maybe, and we are not members of that?
Errm dirty question I know. Budget - what is available at differing price points? (For someone who done bad at skool..)
How large would it need to be? Before being unusable in anything but flat calm ponds and (far) below superyacht level?
What's the border situation like for uk citizen? I understand most of europe has the schengen agreement (spelt something like that anyway) which allows you to arrive and leave as you please maybe, and we are not members of that?
Errm dirty question I know. Budget - what is available at differing price points? (For someone who done bad at skool..)
If it's coastal passage rather than riverways then sail is the only 'cheap' way of doing it.
Obviously you could do it in an 18ft sail boat, but I'd want about 40ft, long keeled and probably metal hulled (for all weather ability and safety). But that's purely belt and braces and a decent sized plastic boat with a wing keel would be fine.
Budget for the boat say £30k? If you only stop on the hook and avoid marinas then it would be doable on a limited budget. A chartplotter and auto helm would take care of the navigation, but you'd want to know what you're doing and where you're going if the tech goes down.
Obviously you could do it in an 18ft sail boat, but I'd want about 40ft, long keeled and probably metal hulled (for all weather ability and safety). But that's purely belt and braces and a decent sized plastic boat with a wing keel would be fine.
Budget for the boat say £30k? If you only stop on the hook and avoid marinas then it would be doable on a limited budget. A chartplotter and auto helm would take care of the navigation, but you'd want to know what you're doing and where you're going if the tech goes down.
TTwiggy said:
If it's coastal passage rather than riverways then sail is the only 'cheap' way of doing it.
Obviously you could do it in an 18ft sail boat, but I'd want about 40ft, long keeled and probably metal hulled (for all weather ability and safety). But that's purely belt and braces and a decent sized plastic boat with a wing keel would be fine.
Budget for the boat say £30k? If you only stop on the hook and avoid marinas then it would be doable on a limited budget. A chartplotter and auto helm would take care of the navigation, but you'd want to know what you're doing and where you're going if the tech goes down.
Thanks very much for your information. I know absolutely nothing, maybe even less about such matters!Obviously you could do it in an 18ft sail boat, but I'd want about 40ft, long keeled and probably metal hulled (for all weather ability and safety). But that's purely belt and braces and a decent sized plastic boat with a wing keel would be fine.
Budget for the boat say £30k? If you only stop on the hook and avoid marinas then it would be doable on a limited budget. A chartplotter and auto helm would take care of the navigation, but you'd want to know what you're doing and where you're going if the tech goes down.
As a guide, I think this looks stunning. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/non-motorin...
Kind of boat I wanted, how does it step up? I'd be happier with the option of motor power when needed.
I understand rough costs for motors are around 100 pounds per hour? Depending on what motor is fitted of course.
How hard is it to sail? I know that it's a skill, how long could it take me to learn to sail safely? Is a large team/crew required?
Like i say, i really don't know anything about boats!
From scratch you can learn enough to get you around the coastal regions of europe in a week or so of 'zero-to-hero' intensive courses at UKSA or similar; I can't say I'd recommend doing just that though.
Sailing single-handed is more about personal confidence rather than experience and ability; IIRC Day Melon sailed single-handed around the UK in her first boat while still a teenager.
Sailing single-handed is more about personal confidence rather than experience and ability; IIRC Day Melon sailed single-handed around the UK in her first boat while still a teenager.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 6th September 19:43
itannum990 said:
Thanks very much for your information. I know absolutely nothing, maybe even less about such matters!
As a guide, I think this looks stunning. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/non-motorin...
Kind of boat I wanted, how does it step up? I'd be happier with the option of motor power when needed.
I understand rough costs for motors are around 100 pounds per hour? Depending on what motor is fitted of course.
How hard is it to sail? I know that it's a skill, how long could it take me to learn to sail safely? Is a large team/crew required?
Like i say, i really don't know anything about boats!
Never sailed one, but I'd say a tad small for extended Med cruising, and not sure I'd like to be in one in very rough weather or offshore - it's designed to be lightweight to "trail-sail" (and helps with bonkers speed (for a motorsailer) on massive outboard - think "speedboat") so in theory less fun in heavy weather, and less able to stand up to extended rough stuff I would suspect.As a guide, I think this looks stunning. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/non-motorin...
Kind of boat I wanted, how does it step up? I'd be happier with the option of motor power when needed.
I understand rough costs for motors are around 100 pounds per hour? Depending on what motor is fitted of course.
How hard is it to sail? I know that it's a skill, how long could it take me to learn to sail safely? Is a large team/crew required?
Like i say, i really don't know anything about boats!
Outboards are petrol, and if prices of fuel in the Med are like they are in the UK then will be more expensive to run for extended cruising when compared to a diesel inboard engine.
That said, if you like a turn of speed now and again, plus the ability to stick it on a trailer every couple of weeks and drive somewhere new for a change of scenery then it could be for you. Not too tricky to sail I would imagine - crew of 2 would be fine.
Sorry to hijack the thread but I have a motor boating (hehe) question, my boat is 30 ft, weighs in a 6400kg with 2 Bmc 2.5 diesels they drive 2 props underneath with a flat bottom (no keel to speak of) , not had her in the water yet as she's a long term project, what sort of running costs am I likely to be looking at at current fuel prices knocking around Falmouth bay compared to say an amble through the French canals? Anyone who can shed any light on this would be great.
Ian
Ian
Most large ish 30ft+ say, will do about 1 or 2mpg. The real problem is that running on red diesel, at £1 per litre or less, is only usable in the UK. If you venture into Europe, especially Holland or Belgium, you WILL be fined. France has a bit more laissez - faire. Also remember, it takes around 2000 litres of white to remove all traces of red.
They key to any boat adventures is training and experience. I would suggest that your first couple of long passages are done with someone who has experience - there are plenty of people who do this for a living.
The flat-bottomed boat above? Keep to rivers and coastal. Especially with those old engines.
They key to any boat adventures is training and experience. I would suggest that your first couple of long passages are done with someone who has experience - there are plenty of people who do this for a living.
The flat-bottomed boat above? Keep to rivers and coastal. Especially with those old engines.
Vegetable oil..?
Idea is to be able to have little trips with friends and family to france, spain, ireland, iom etc.
I guess a heavier bottom would make it more stable, less chance of making children (and wife) sea sick etc.
I was thinking trailer mounted boat would save mooring costs, but thinking about it I would then need trailer, land, and tow vehicle. Plus its looks scary getting it from trailer to water back to trailer.
Idea is to be able to have little trips with friends and family to france, spain, ireland, iom etc.
I guess a heavier bottom would make it more stable, less chance of making children (and wife) sea sick etc.
I was thinking trailer mounted boat would save mooring costs, but thinking about it I would then need trailer, land, and tow vehicle. Plus its looks scary getting it from trailer to water back to trailer.
Why don't you try renting one first? I've got a couple of mates who have bought boats and are now looking to lose about half their money selling them again. 
Reasons like wife gets seasick, kids growing up and no longer interested, loads of rules and regulations to follow - licence needed for inland waterways, different on for at sea, another one for 2-way radio - (we're in Belgium so in the UK this may be different).
Reasons like wife gets seasick, kids growing up and no longer interested, loads of rules and regulations to follow - licence needed for inland waterways, different on for at sea, another one for 2-way radio - (we're in Belgium so in the UK this may be different).
sunbeam alpine said:
Reasons like wife gets seasick, kids growing up and no longer interested, loads of rules and regulations to follow - licence needed for inland waterways, different on for at sea, another one for 2-way radio - (we're in Belgium so in the UK this may be different).
The UK is much more relaxed. You should have a radio licence (and a radio!) but that's about it.That said, I don't really see why a few rules is such a bad thing - we expect to pass a test to drive a car and then keep that car MOT'd and insured.
Op
I would be inclined to look at a sailing boat of a minimum 30ft but better at 35-40ft, although the larger ones can be harder work to sail and park due to the loads on the lines.
I have sailed around Europe on our 33ft boat and at times in the Bay of Biscay and the Alderney tidal race it felt very small indeed. Generally speaking a bigger boat will go faster as a longer hull has a higher theoretical top speed. Bigger boats also cost more to park in marinas, but are much less like camping than smaller ones.
If you are going to frequent shallow ports or ones that dry out (Archachon etc) either a lifting keel or a bilge keel is useful, the latter gernerally being the most comfortable when dried out
I would be inclined to look at a sailing boat of a minimum 30ft but better at 35-40ft, although the larger ones can be harder work to sail and park due to the loads on the lines.
I have sailed around Europe on our 33ft boat and at times in the Bay of Biscay and the Alderney tidal race it felt very small indeed. Generally speaking a bigger boat will go faster as a longer hull has a higher theoretical top speed. Bigger boats also cost more to park in marinas, but are much less like camping than smaller ones.
If you are going to frequent shallow ports or ones that dry out (Archachon etc) either a lifting keel or a bilge keel is useful, the latter gernerally being the most comfortable when dried out
TTwiggy said:
sunbeam alpine said:
Reasons like wife gets seasick, kids growing up and no longer interested, loads of rules and regulations to follow - licence needed for inland waterways, different on for at sea, another one for 2-way radio - (we're in Belgium so in the UK this may be different).
The UK is much more relaxed. You should have a radio licence (and a radio!) but that's about it.That said, I don't really see why a few rules is such a bad thing - we expect to pass a test to drive a car and then keep that car MOT'd and insured.
Unfortunately my friend only found out about it AFTER he'd bought what at first was a very expensive caravan - they could sleep in it, tow it around on a trailer, park it in water, but not drive it on the water.
Now he's got all the licences (he had to follow some courses) his family isn't interested any more. He's not very happy!
For a sailing boat, you need as a very minimum to do an RYA day skipper course, you may need an ICC.
Even better is a Coastal Skipper qualification, especially if you want to do some longer hops.
The sea is a big nasty place and it doesnt take prisoners
In the words of Arthur Ransome "BETTER DROWNED THAN DUFFERS IF NOT DUFFERS WON'T DROWN "
meaning :if you do get drowned it’s a good riddance.
Duffer: One who is clumsy or incompetent.
Even better is a Coastal Skipper qualification, especially if you want to do some longer hops.
The sea is a big nasty place and it doesnt take prisoners
In the words of Arthur Ransome "BETTER DROWNED THAN DUFFERS IF NOT DUFFERS WON'T DROWN "
meaning :if you do get drowned it’s a good riddance.
Duffer: One who is clumsy or incompetent.
Hiring one, sort of have done. Spent a couple of weeks on a narrow boat. Loved it. Often rent one for day trips abroad, only motor boats though. I think in corfu we had one for a couple of days, didnt sleep in it because tiny, but went from port to port, restaurant to restaurant (and bar) just park up, eat drink enjoy. Loved it!
Training. Wont be taken lightly, will not risk the life of my wife or any other passengers. Or the poor b
ds sent to fish us out.. The sea is not a playground!
No problem following rules, that's my job.
Bilge keel/lifting keel..?
Training. Wont be taken lightly, will not risk the life of my wife or any other passengers. Or the poor b
ds sent to fish us out.. The sea is not a playground! No problem following rules, that's my job.
Bilge keel/lifting keel..?
blueg33 said:
For a sailing boat, you need as a very minimum to do an RYA day skipper course, you may need an ICC.
Even better is a Coastal Skipper qualification, especially if you want to do some longer hops.
You don't need, there are many people competently sailing about without having sat in RYA course. Even better is a Coastal Skipper qualification, especially if you want to do some longer hops.
No experience, 18ft wooden boat: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shrimpy-Record-Voyage-Eigh...
What can be done and what you want to do might not be the same thing.
Edited by Fittster on Monday 8th September 13:09
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