Southampton Airport Approach - Plane Altitude
Discussion
This might not come across as planned, but here goes.
I purchased a house several years ago over in Hythe. Its under the flight path, but far enough away that the planes flew overhead, but you couldn't hear them. In the last few months I've noticed the planes seem lower, to the point you can sometimes hear them over the TV in the lounge.
Has there been a change of policy or rules on approaching the airport? Has the ceiling been lowered so to speak?
I purchased a house several years ago over in Hythe. Its under the flight path, but far enough away that the planes flew overhead, but you couldn't hear them. In the last few months I've noticed the planes seem lower, to the point you can sometimes hear them over the TV in the lounge.
Has there been a change of policy or rules on approaching the airport? Has the ceiling been lowered so to speak?
There's no lowering of any ceiling the Solent zone remains as was. Runway 02 has an ILS so by Hythe you would expect aircraft to be established on the glide path if not flying a visual approach.
Is it not quite simply that with all the high pressure systems we've enjoyed that 02 has been in use a lot more than in past months/years and that more traffic has been landing in that direction as a consequence?
Are there any flybe pilots on here who could enlighten us as to whether they've changed procedures at all as I'm guessing it's their aircraft you'll have been hearing?
Is it not quite simply that with all the high pressure systems we've enjoyed that 02 has been in use a lot more than in past months/years and that more traffic has been landing in that direction as a consequence?
Are there any flybe pilots on here who could enlighten us as to whether they've changed procedures at all as I'm guessing it's their aircraft you'll have been hearing?
Looking at the approach plates for Southampton the minimum height for all approaches should be 1,700ft over Hythe before starting the decent to the airport just as they approach the water.
To be fair I'd consider yourself lucky southampton won't except aircraft after midnight. You probably get more noise from chinooks landing at march wood at 3am.
To be fair I'd consider yourself lucky southampton won't except aircraft after midnight. You probably get more noise from chinooks landing at march wood at 3am.
I had a bit of time so I had a look.
The ILS in SOU is on runway 20, the southerly facing runway, and so arriving aircraft wouldn't be so much of an issue in Hythe. I'll assume that the ILS is positioned this way to take advantage of a prevailing 'sea breeze' for the majority of the time. If current weather conditions have resulted in more northerly winds then it'll be runway 02.
The VOR approach on runway 02 (northerly facing) is a bit convoluted and so it'll add few minutes to pilots' flight time, especially for arrivals from the North. Assuming a right hand visual circuit (and also the possibility that northerly arrivals don't want to fly the full routing for runway 02), then it seems reasonable to expect an aircraft on a visual circuit to be turning 'base' at around 1400ft about a mile North of Hythe.
By accepting/requesting a visual approach pilots are:
a) Practicing their raw data flying skills.
b) Shortening the flying time and so helping on time performance.
C) Reducing fuel burn and hence pollution.
As always there are both benefits and costs.
The ILS in SOU is on runway 20, the southerly facing runway, and so arriving aircraft wouldn't be so much of an issue in Hythe. I'll assume that the ILS is positioned this way to take advantage of a prevailing 'sea breeze' for the majority of the time. If current weather conditions have resulted in more northerly winds then it'll be runway 02.
The VOR approach on runway 02 (northerly facing) is a bit convoluted and so it'll add few minutes to pilots' flight time, especially for arrivals from the North. Assuming a right hand visual circuit (and also the possibility that northerly arrivals don't want to fly the full routing for runway 02), then it seems reasonable to expect an aircraft on a visual circuit to be turning 'base' at around 1400ft about a mile North of Hythe.
By accepting/requesting a visual approach pilots are:
a) Practicing their raw data flying skills.
b) Shortening the flying time and so helping on time performance.
C) Reducing fuel burn and hence pollution.
As always there are both benefits and costs.
Edited by pushthebutton on Thursday 18th September 19:01
jjones said:
buy a house on the runway approach and then start whinging about the noise, get a grip.
Don't be a dick. I'm not complaining, just asking if there is a difference in protocol. I've lived here long enough to know there has been some kind of change, as previously they were high enough you couldn't hear them and now you can almost see the people in the windows.If you look at a map you can see Hythe is quite a way from the airport, and it would be reasonable to expect not to hear them, and we haven't done till recently.
S10GTA said:
Don't be a dick. I'm not complaining, just asking if there is a difference in protocol. I've lived here long enough to know there has been some kind of change, as previously they were high enough you couldn't hear them and now you can almost see the people in the windows.
If you look at a map you can see Hythe is quite a way from the airport, and it would be reasonable to expect not to hear them, and we haven't done till recently.
I used to commute out of Southampton to schipol every 2 weeks back in 05/06 and 75% of approaches we did were over Hythe. Considering that's the route you have to fly. If you look at a map you can see Hythe is quite a way from the airport, and it would be reasonable to expect not to hear them, and we haven't done till recently.
Again I'll say it's not that noisy. Southampton are only open to midnight and it has limited moves compared to other airfields. As someone's stated above is it just that we've been having a lot of good weather recently so sound travels further and you have your windows open?
ecsrobin said:
I used to commute out of Southampton to schipol every 2 weeks back in 05/06 and 75% of approaches we did were over Hythe. Considering that's the route you have to fly.
Again I'll say it's not that noisy. Southampton are only open to midnight and it has limited moves compared to other airfields. As someone's stated above is it just that we've been having a lot of good weather recently so sound travels further and you have your windows open?
I'm not disputing its the way they fly. I know this. I have lived here long enough. Again I'll say it's not that noisy. Southampton are only open to midnight and it has limited moves compared to other airfields. As someone's stated above is it just that we've been having a lot of good weather recently so sound travels further and you have your windows open?
What I am questioning is why they are lower, and why my house now shakes whereas before you couldn't even hear them out in the garden.
The prevailing winds for Southampton Airport are south westerly. This results in the ILS for runway 20 being used for around 60% of arrivals. Aircraft will approach to land from the North and depart to the South (in the direction of Hyde).
So, for the last few months as you've noticed, (arriving?) aircraft are flying closer to Hythe and lower. I will guess that runway 02 has been in use due to other weather systems creating more northerly winds and so overriding the more normal sea breeze. These last few months have been during the Summer spike which can see a 50% increase in aircraft movements.
So, assuming runway 02 has been in use for arrivals, and there has been a 50% increase in traffic due to the Summer months, then you will experience an unusual increase in traffic around the Hythe area. But, the full published approach for runway 02 is not directly lined up with the runway. It is offset to the East and so initially keeps aircraft away from Hythe. This Summer's weather has been reasonably stable and visibility has been good. If you think of the full approach to runway 02 as a method for breaking through cloud to see the airport then, if there is no cloud, you don't need to follow this procedure.
So, if aircraft are arriving from destinations to the South of Southampton (France etc) and can see the airfield then they will be more inclined to approach visually (using their eyes) and so will line up with the runway from further away from the airport. This will take them further West of the 'cloud break' approach track and closer to Hythe.
Aircraft arriving from the North of Southampton (Scotland, Ireland, Northern UK etc) still have to land on runway 02 so they have to fly past the airport and join the other arrivals from the South. If there's no cloud they are not required to follow the cloud break procedure and can approach visually. During a normal visually flown manoeuvre to land on runway 02 pilots will position themselves so that the airfield will pass by the right hand side of the airfield at about 1500ft. They will continue South and then make two 90º right hand turns to line up with runway 02. This will place the aircraft about 1.5 miles to the North of Hythe at around 1400ft. This is lower than 'normal' from your perspective, but perfectly normal for an aircraft making a visual approach to runway 02 in Southampton whilst arriving from a Northerly destination.
So, the manoeuvre is normal, procedures haven't changed, but the combination of less frequent northerly winds, good visual conditions and a 50% spike in Summer traffic will result in more aircraft flying closer and lower in relation to Hythe over the last few months.
HTH
So, for the last few months as you've noticed, (arriving?) aircraft are flying closer to Hythe and lower. I will guess that runway 02 has been in use due to other weather systems creating more northerly winds and so overriding the more normal sea breeze. These last few months have been during the Summer spike which can see a 50% increase in aircraft movements.
So, assuming runway 02 has been in use for arrivals, and there has been a 50% increase in traffic due to the Summer months, then you will experience an unusual increase in traffic around the Hythe area. But, the full published approach for runway 02 is not directly lined up with the runway. It is offset to the East and so initially keeps aircraft away from Hythe. This Summer's weather has been reasonably stable and visibility has been good. If you think of the full approach to runway 02 as a method for breaking through cloud to see the airport then, if there is no cloud, you don't need to follow this procedure.
So, if aircraft are arriving from destinations to the South of Southampton (France etc) and can see the airfield then they will be more inclined to approach visually (using their eyes) and so will line up with the runway from further away from the airport. This will take them further West of the 'cloud break' approach track and closer to Hythe.
Aircraft arriving from the North of Southampton (Scotland, Ireland, Northern UK etc) still have to land on runway 02 so they have to fly past the airport and join the other arrivals from the South. If there's no cloud they are not required to follow the cloud break procedure and can approach visually. During a normal visually flown manoeuvre to land on runway 02 pilots will position themselves so that the airfield will pass by the right hand side of the airfield at about 1500ft. They will continue South and then make two 90º right hand turns to line up with runway 02. This will place the aircraft about 1.5 miles to the North of Hythe at around 1400ft. This is lower than 'normal' from your perspective, but perfectly normal for an aircraft making a visual approach to runway 02 in Southampton whilst arriving from a Northerly destination.
So, the manoeuvre is normal, procedures haven't changed, but the combination of less frequent northerly winds, good visual conditions and a 50% spike in Summer traffic will result in more aircraft flying closer and lower in relation to Hythe over the last few months.
HTH
Edited by pushthebutton on Friday 19th September 11:16
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