Independent Scottish Air Force
Discussion
Aside from the issue of what materiel an Independent Scotland might inherit, there seems to have been a distinct lack of discussion as to what happens if the skilled individuals required to make them work decide to stay with the UK armed forces rather than swear allegiance to the People's Republic of Jockistan.
From what I gather, Scottish members of the armed forces would be given a choice as to whether to stay put or switch. Is it that limited to just Scots? What happens if (for instance) there are no Scottish Typhoon pilots? Or for that matter, engineers, or any other trade? Do they get the kit but then have to train their own crews?
I'm sure someone, somewhere must have considered this but I've not seen anything dealing with it to date.
From what I gather, Scottish members of the armed forces would be given a choice as to whether to stay put or switch. Is it that limited to just Scots? What happens if (for instance) there are no Scottish Typhoon pilots? Or for that matter, engineers, or any other trade? Do they get the kit but then have to train their own crews?
I'm sure someone, somewhere must have considered this but I've not seen anything dealing with it to date.
Junior Bianno said:
Remember a massive chunk of the Scottish population didn't ask for, or want, this vote.
That's not what the polls say.... The turn out will be interesting by percentage, as will the actual 'Yes' 'No' split.We will see at about 22:10 this evening who wanted it.......
It's sentiments like these that have convinced me to vote 'Yes'.
Sweeping, derogatory remarks by the 'know it all' English. Very little of what I have just read from you lot actually is anywhere near to the truth and demonstrates no more than a cursory glance at a local tabloid. This is a friendly forum for like minded people, predominantly British, so people should remember who they are insulting when talking bad of their neighboring country.
Cameron promotes 'better together' and 'a happy prosperous union' while the majority of the English public seem to view Scotland as somewhat of a joke who couldn't run their own country even if it is a Yes vote.
It's sad to have so little faith in a country which has given so much to the world, contributed so much to the UK economy, fought and died as part of the Uk in numerous wars and all under a government it usually didn't want or vote for.
Sweeping, derogatory remarks by the 'know it all' English. Very little of what I have just read from you lot actually is anywhere near to the truth and demonstrates no more than a cursory glance at a local tabloid. This is a friendly forum for like minded people, predominantly British, so people should remember who they are insulting when talking bad of their neighboring country.
Cameron promotes 'better together' and 'a happy prosperous union' while the majority of the English public seem to view Scotland as somewhat of a joke who couldn't run their own country even if it is a Yes vote.
It's sad to have so little faith in a country which has given so much to the world, contributed so much to the UK economy, fought and died as part of the Uk in numerous wars and all under a government it usually didn't want or vote for.
Don't assume everyone posting is "you English".
I am Irish and if any nation deserves to carry a chip on their shoulders against "you English" it is the Irish.
Perhaps independence is the only antidote to chips on shoulders. After all, the Irish, for the most part, are now down to possible only a small portion of chips rather than the traditional large portion that they seemed to carry against "the auld enemy".
The sad thing is that for far too long far too many people have equated "Britishness" with "Englishness". If people had been able to recognise that a "British" way was not necessarily an "English" way - maybe these islands might have stayed a bit more united for longer.
I am Irish and if any nation deserves to carry a chip on their shoulders against "you English" it is the Irish.
Perhaps independence is the only antidote to chips on shoulders. After all, the Irish, for the most part, are now down to possible only a small portion of chips rather than the traditional large portion that they seemed to carry against "the auld enemy".
The sad thing is that for far too long far too many people have equated "Britishness" with "Englishness". If people had been able to recognise that a "British" way was not necessarily an "English" way - maybe these islands might have stayed a bit more united for longer.
Speculatore said:
Salmond said in his speech last night that once independent they will remove that unnecessary Nuclear Deterrent from their waters. There goes a couple of thousand jobs in one area. I wonder if the Tridents can fit in to Devonport?
They can't, except in the light condition prior to a refit, and even then at the highest of Spring tides. It would be impossible to base the Trudent Submarines in Devonport.When Ploaris was procured the study into the basing options then identified only 3 places in the UK suitable to base the SSBN fleet and that was Faslane, Falmouth and Milford Haven.
Milford Haven is probably out now In case the Welsh also want independence, and because of the proximity of a major LNG terminal. That leaves Falmouth but would the UK really build a new Naval Base in Falmouth or would we have to look at a different deterrent system?
Craigwww said:
It's sentiments like these that have convinced me to vote 'Yes'.
Sweeping, derogatory remarks by the 'know it all' English. Very little of what I have just read from you lot actually is anywhere near to the truth and demonstrates no more than a cursory glance at a local tabloid. This is a friendly forum for like minded people, predominantly British, so people should remember who they are insulting when talking bad of their neighboring country.
Cameron promotes 'better together' and 'a happy prosperous union' while the majority of the English public seem to view Scotland as somewhat of a joke who couldn't run their own country even if it is a Yes vote.
It's sad to have so little faith in a country which has given so much to the world, contributed so much to the UK economy, fought and died as part of the Uk in numerous wars and all under a government it usually didn't want or vote for.
You would need to be numb between the ears to fail to appreciate why the English, Welsh and Northern Irish wouldn't take this Yes Campaign as anything other than a massive insult.Sweeping, derogatory remarks by the 'know it all' English. Very little of what I have just read from you lot actually is anywhere near to the truth and demonstrates no more than a cursory glance at a local tabloid. This is a friendly forum for like minded people, predominantly British, so people should remember who they are insulting when talking bad of their neighboring country.
Cameron promotes 'better together' and 'a happy prosperous union' while the majority of the English public seem to view Scotland as somewhat of a joke who couldn't run their own country even if it is a Yes vote.
It's sad to have so little faith in a country which has given so much to the world, contributed so much to the UK economy, fought and died as part of the Uk in numerous wars and all under a government it usually didn't want or vote for.
As a Scot, I'm astonished that the English in particular have been so good natured about it. It will take top grade idiocy to think that rUK will do anything for Scotland to their own detriment, real or perceived, post a Yes vote though - which in this context means the retention of Typhoons.
Craigwww said:
It's sad to have so little faith in a country
We have a lot of faith in our country. The UK. And you are right it has done a lot for the world. What we don't get is why a part of our country would want to leave, given the plans they have laid out for their future are mostly lies, and they'll be very poor and struggling for a generation or two. In order to...err...well no real reason just because.Smart move.
trashbat said:
Do you think maybe your lack of understanding and empathy for Yes voters' hopes and complaints might have something to do with it?
I understand their hopes. But building a country on lies and hope isn't something I think is a good idea.1: "We hope to have an airforce and we'll fund it with all the oil in the north sea we promised ourselves will exist if...well...someone finds it"
2: "We already have an airforce and the funding exists and is well documented"
I choose 2 as the better option.I don't think you do understand.
I'm not Scottish and I hope the vote is No, but the reason I hope it's No is a selfish one. I see the result of No, Devo Max, as being a catalyst for something like federal-style reform in England, and I see Scottish independence as being the effective end of the same.
But if I were Scottish, I would vote Yes.
It's not quite taxation-without-representation, but when you're stuck with a minority share and Westminster doesn't represent you in any meaningful way, not even giving a f
k about the referendum until about two weeks ago when it dawned on them it might not go their way, then why wouldn't you vote for increased self-determination?
This thread is rabbiting on about things like Trident or the Eurofighter on the assumption that anyone cares. You give the Scots a referendum on Trident and see what happens, or ask about the military strategy that supposedly justifies it. For that matter, since security's the topic, why don't you ask if it was a good idea to chop up Nimrod? And even if they did have a say, at best you require significant support from the English to get what you want. The responses to the thread are illuminating - if not self-important Englishness from people that barely have any idea about what makes up their highly prized union, then it'll-never-work smugness.
I'm from the North of England and feel similarly disenfranchised from British political trends, something that appears to be largely concerned with bankers and landlords in London and the South East. I'm supposed to what, shut up and be grateful for some half arsed act of benevolence like moving a bit of the BBC? Union my arse. Unfortunately I don't have the same degree of coherent regional identity that would help push for reform. Fair play to the Scots for using theirs.
I'm not Scottish and I hope the vote is No, but the reason I hope it's No is a selfish one. I see the result of No, Devo Max, as being a catalyst for something like federal-style reform in England, and I see Scottish independence as being the effective end of the same.
But if I were Scottish, I would vote Yes.
It's not quite taxation-without-representation, but when you're stuck with a minority share and Westminster doesn't represent you in any meaningful way, not even giving a f
k about the referendum until about two weeks ago when it dawned on them it might not go their way, then why wouldn't you vote for increased self-determination?This thread is rabbiting on about things like Trident or the Eurofighter on the assumption that anyone cares. You give the Scots a referendum on Trident and see what happens, or ask about the military strategy that supposedly justifies it. For that matter, since security's the topic, why don't you ask if it was a good idea to chop up Nimrod? And even if they did have a say, at best you require significant support from the English to get what you want. The responses to the thread are illuminating - if not self-important Englishness from people that barely have any idea about what makes up their highly prized union, then it'll-never-work smugness.
I'm from the North of England and feel similarly disenfranchised from British political trends, something that appears to be largely concerned with bankers and landlords in London and the South East. I'm supposed to what, shut up and be grateful for some half arsed act of benevolence like moving a bit of the BBC? Union my arse. Unfortunately I don't have the same degree of coherent regional identity that would help push for reform. Fair play to the Scots for using theirs.
Hugo a Gogo said:
Eric Mc said:
Isn't Berwick still at war with Russia. Maybe they could use that as a pretext to invading Scotland through its "weak underbelly".
except Berwick is in England (or is that the weak underbelly?)
I wonder what will happen to the Army - apparently Salmond has said that all Scottish regiments would be maintained in the new Scottish defence force, so no more Scots Guards at Buck Palace etc, but how would he stop individual Scots Guardsmen putting in for a transfer to the British Army? After all the Jock soldiers didn't sign up to guard the fish dock at Aberdeen.
How many Scottish Typhoon pilots would choose to serve in the SAF? Has anyone asked them? How many Scottish Typhoon pilots are there anyway?
How many Scottish Typhoon pilots would choose to serve in the SAF? Has anyone asked them? How many Scottish Typhoon pilots are there anyway?
Max_Torque said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
Eric Mc said:
Isn't Berwick still at war with Russia. Maybe they could use that as a pretext to invading Scotland through its "weak underbelly".
except Berwick is in England (or is that the weak underbelly?)Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff