50 years ago today at Boscombe Down...

50 years ago today at Boscombe Down...

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King Herald

23,501 posts

215 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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DamienB said:
Looks like something you'd build in your shed!!!!! confusedpaperbag

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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You must have an impressive shed.

In effect, it WAS built in a shed - a very, very big one - commonly referred to as a "hangar".

Have you seen either of the two preserved examples? They are most gob smacking.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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King Herald said:
DamienB said:
Looks like something you'd build in your shed!!!!! confusedpaperbag
Function defines form. Lightning couldn't catch one in test flights, so quite nippy.

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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It's the nose/cabin area that lets it down aesthetically.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Eric Mc said:
You must have an impressive shed.

In effect, it WAS built in a shed - a very, very big one - commonly referred to as a "hangar".

Have you seen either of the two preserved examples? They are most gob smacking.
Like something out of Thunderbirds for me.

dr_gn

16,140 posts

183 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Seight_Returns said:
Do we know what "name" the TSR2 would have been given when it entered service ? Or would it have been one of the few British aircraft to be known by alphanumeric codes (VC-10, BAC1-11 etc) ?
There was a previous "TSR II" in service: The Fairey Swordfish, although the initials meat Torpedo Spotter Reconnaissance rather than Tactical Strike Reconnaisance

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Where do you think the model designers and builders who worked for Gerry Anderson were getting their inspiration?

Many of the models they built for "Thunderbirds" and other series made use of "off the shelf" plastic kits although, ironically, at the time they were building these models, there was no such kit of a TSR2 available to them.

The aircraft that I see in many of the Gerry Anderson models are permutations of the Convair B-58 Hustler - which in some ways was an American equivalent (although slightly earlier in concept) of the TSR2.

z06tim

558 posts

185 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Another great looking and interesting aircraft cancelled with the loss of 1000's of jobs, and effectively killing Canada's aircraft industry is the Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow.

There are none of these preserved, only some parts, including a nose section at the musuem in Ottawa.

Wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Ar...


FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Short TSR2 film - TSR-2 Story.: http://youtu.be/L_JB3c3DsP0

Longer documentary - TSR2 The Untold Story Full Documentary: http://youtu.be/o53u0X0Ik0w

Yertis

18,015 posts

265 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Eric Mc said:
Many of the models they built for "Thunderbirds" and other series made use of "off the shelf" plastic kits
I'm not sure that's true of the Gerry Anderson series Eric, the models they used were quite big and pretty much scratch built. Very few of the original Thunderbirds stuff survives at all. Here's an Interceptor pic for you though! biggrin





Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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It is true - because I've spoken to chaps who have worked for Gerry Anderson and some of the modellers I know are "Anderson Geeks" who know an awful lot about what went on at APF and "Century 21" in Slough.

Of course, they certainly did build 100% original models for a lot of the craft and vehicles. But they did make use of standard kits for bits and pieces as it saved an awful lot of time (and money).
In the later series (such as "UFO" or "Space 1999") the budgets were bigger so they could spend more money on original models but in the early days (including "Thunderbirds") plastic kits were raided for their parts.




b14

1,060 posts

187 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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The US had their "TSR II" moment with the B-70 Valkyrie. The Valkyrie was outrageously complicated, but by all accounts flew very nicely and towards the end of the programme was achieving relatively respectable levels of reliability. It was also incredibly quick, with the "six pack" of J-93s.

Killed by vast expense, politics, and of course the proven capabilities of the SA-2 Guideline.


BOBTEE

1,034 posts

163 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Eric Mc said:
I wonder what its service entry date would actually have been - by the time they had sorted out all the problems. I would strongly recommend this book which came out recently which is a very fair assessment of the programme -

Do you have a link as to where I could buy that please? Dad's b'day soon wink

DamienB

Original Poster:

1,189 posts

218 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Buy him a proper book then not a pamphlet... www.tsr2.info

DamienB

Original Poster:

1,189 posts

218 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
V8 Fettler said:
Function defines form. Lightning couldn't catch one in test flights, so quite nippy.
Sorry, total nonsense. TSR2 top speed ever reached - Mach 1.12. Lightning top speed - Mach 2+.

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It is true - because I've spoken to chaps who have worked for Gerry Anderson and some of the modellers I know are "Anderson Geeks" who know an awful lot about what went on at APF and "Century 21" in Slough.

Of course, they certainly did build 100% original models for a lot of the craft and vehicles. But they did make use of standard kits for bits and pieces as it saved an awful lot of time (and money).
In the later series (such as "UFO" or "Space 1999") the budgets were bigger so they could spend more money on original models but in the early days (including "Thunderbirds") plastic kits were raided for their parts.
APF? wink

AlexIT

1,482 posts

137 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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b14 said:
Killed by vast expense, politics, and of course the proven capabilities of the SA-2 Guideline.
And a too close formation flight with an F-104, I dare add.

Mave

8,208 posts

214 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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DamienB said:
Sorry, total nonsense. TSR2 top speed ever reached - Mach 1.12. Lightning top speed - Mach 2+.
Not nonsense in the context of the flight testing covered. Higher top speed does not equal faster acceleration or faster climb.

Hooli

32,278 posts

199 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Mave said:
DamienB said:
Sorry, total nonsense. TSR2 top speed ever reached - Mach 1.12. Lightning top speed - Mach 2+.
Not nonsense in the context of the flight testing covered. Higher top speed does not equal faster acceleration or faster climb.
Was the TSR2 or Concorde people clam was quicker than Frightning because the Frightning had to use reheat to keep up while the test aircraft was testing it's reheat?

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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DamienB said:
And we screwed them and cancelled the F-111, so they screwed us in return and cancelled all the buys they were in the progress of carrying out. A sad chain of affairs really, but that was how it went...
Getting O/T here, but what buys were these?