what has our military lost during austerity measures
Discussion
steve j said:
I think the answer is pretty obvious, gross misconduct etc. On the squadron, there was a feeling he should have been tried for attempted manslaughter.
Which is total b
ks.While the crew were aware they had an 'armed' jet there were a number of corporate failings which lead them to firing the missile.
Not least of which was the Ground Crew's failure to tie wrap the armament circuit breakers in the 'Safe' position.
If we are going to throw around accusations of attempted manslaughter, then everyone who prepped that jet for that sortie should be tried.
The Navy has lost all its Type 22 Frigates. Batch 3s were superb command and control ships.
All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Elroy Blue said:
The Navy has lost all its Type 22 Frigates. Batch 3s were superb command and control ships.
All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Type 42 has been replaced by type 45All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Type 22/23 will be getting replaced in the next 10 years
With no deplorable fixed wing aircraft (getting replaced by JSF) there is no need for carriers. For airborne ops we have multiple RFA ships and ocean. Along with the capability of the 45 for helo ops.
They have lost Lynx helicopters but are getting all the RAF's Merlin's so a capability increase surely?
As for blaming a specific government I never think that's fair. The conservatives were just trying to limit/repair the damage caused by the Labour Party.
ecsrobin said:
Type 42 has been replaced by type 45
How many Type 42s and how many Type 45s? The ships can only be in one place at once. ecsrobin said:
Type 22/23 will be getting replaced in the next 10 years
A Politician promises that new ships 'may' be ordered at sometime in the future. Right oh! And what do we do in the next ten years. The 22 Batch 3s were supremely capable ships and scrapped long before their time. ecsrobin said:
With no deplorable fixed wing aircraft (getting replaced by JSF) there is no need for carriers. For airborne ops we have multiple RFA ships and ocean. Along with the capability of the 45 for helo ops.
RFA ships to conduct air ops? Have you ever set foot on a warship? RFAs are platforms. They are not designed for warfighting and do not have the necessary Ops rooms and facilities for command and control. Ocean is knackered and was built on the cheap to civilian specs. ecsrobin said:
They have lost Lynx helicopters but are getting all the RAF's Merlin's so a capability increase surely?
Two totally different platforms. The Merlin will be a replacement (but far from one for one) for the Sea King HC4s. ecsrobin said:
As for blaming a specific government I never think that's fair. The conservatives were just trying to limit/repair the damage caused by the Labour Party.
The Conservatives conducted the shambles that was SDR 2010. With one stoke of a pen they cut whole capabilities, without having a clue what they were doing. Labour were equally as inept. I notice you didn't address the cull of trained personnel, which has stopped the deployment of ships due to lack of trained crew. The Defence secretary gave a speech at the recent Tory conference. You only have to look at the Forces unofficial websites to see what serving soldiers/sailors/airman thought of it.
ecsrobin said:
Elroy Blue said:
The Navy has lost all its Type 22 Frigates. Batch 3s were superb command and control ships.
All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Type 42 has been replaced by type 45All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Type 22/23 will be getting replaced in the next 10 years
With no deplorable fixed wing aircraft (getting replaced by JSF) there is no need for carriers. For airborne ops we have multiple RFA ships and ocean. Along with the capability of the 45 for helo ops.
They have lost Lynx helicopters but are getting all the RAF's Merlin's so a capability increase surely?
As for blaming a specific government I never think that's fair. The conservatives were just trying to limit/repair the damage caused by the Labour Party.
king tories.aeropilot said:
ecsrobin said:
As for blaming a specific government I never think that's fair.
Indeed, as you can pretty much blame every single one of them during the past half a century or more.t, let's build a massive navy to protect ourselves!' France at peace - 'st this navy is expensive, disband it!' And repeat.Mojocvh said:
ecsrobin said:
Elroy Blue said:
The Navy has lost all its Type 22 Frigates. Batch 3s were superb command and control ships.
All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Type 42 has been replaced by type 45All its Type 42s.
Three type 23s
The two remaining Invincible class carriers.
A significant number of Lynx helicopters
All it's carrier deployed fixed wing aircraft.
But worst of all it's lost thousands of trained personnel. There are currently three ships waiting to deploy that can't due to lack of qualified engineers. Others are at sea only because we've borrowed some from the US Coast Guard.
But don't worry. Everything is fine and there's nothing to see here. I know that because the Tory defence Sec said so at the Tory conference a few weeks ago.
Type 22/23 will be getting replaced in the next 10 years
With no deplorable fixed wing aircraft (getting replaced by JSF) there is no need for carriers. For airborne ops we have multiple RFA ships and ocean. Along with the capability of the 45 for helo ops.
They have lost Lynx helicopters but are getting all the RAF's Merlin's so a capability increase surely?
As for blaming a specific government I never think that's fair. The conservatives were just trying to limit/repair the damage caused by the Labour Party.
king tories.Simpo Two said:
It's called peacetime, and called having no real enemies, and being massively in debt, and having other priorities. It was no different in the Middle Ages. France attacks - 'st, let's build a massive navy to protect ourselves!' France at peace - 'st this navy is expensive, disband it!' And repeat.
It might have escapes your notice, but we've been pretty much continuously at war for the last decade.t, let's build a massive navy to protect ourselves!' France at peace - 'st this navy is expensive, disband it!' And repeat.Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Which is total bks.
While the crew were aware they had an 'armed' jet there were a number of corporate failings which lead them to firing the missile.
Not least of which was the Ground Crew's failure to tie wrap the armament circuit breakers in the 'Safe' position.
If we are going to throw around accusations of attempted manslaughter, then everyone who prepped that jet for that sortie should be tried.
Lovely language ks.While the crew were aware they had an 'armed' jet there were a number of corporate failings which lead them to firing the missile.
Not least of which was the Ground Crew's failure to tie wrap the armament circuit breakers in the 'Safe' position.
If we are going to throw around accusations of attempted manslaughter, then everyone who prepped that jet for that sortie should be tried.
Circuit breakers were not tie wrapped as it was not called for in this type of sortie and was dismissed. The Circuit breakers could be gagged, if called for with little plastic clips that would hold them in the safe position. The ground crew carried out the load correctly and did not contribute to any of the corporate failings in the incident, a copy of the signal stating this, arrived on the squadron. In fact, the Master Arm switch had 1/4 inch tape applied over it as an added attention getter, this was asked for by the aircrew. The armament state in the F700 was completed in red ink as a reminder that live weapons had been loaded, so, despite extra safety precautions, the missile was fired. As I said previously, there were feelings throughout the squadron, at all levels, that he should have been tried for attempted manslaughter.Why would the groundcrew be tried, when they had carried out the assigned duties to the book ? After exhaustive tests using ASM20 test kit and avometers, it was found that with all circuit breakers pulled, the last selected sidewinder station was live, so, even if the circuit breakers had been pulled a missile would still have been fired. If the crew were aware that they were carrying live weapons, it would have landed with a full load. The pilot had a lot of hours on the F4, including QRA, so there were no excuses for what happened, it was an error that we all learned from and thankfully it was never repeated.
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