Red Arrows Hawks to be replaced by F16s!
Discussion
Lost soul said:
onyx39 said:
Personally I would rather disband the team than use 2nd yank aircraft!
What a stupid comment It is also a superb advertising vehicle for the Hawk and in turn Bae, which has I am sure helped to broker many many deals for british industry.
Would you really want them rocking up in 2nd hand yank aircraft? I wouldn't.
Eric Mc said:
....The tradition was revived in the 1950s but by now the fighter squadrons were equipped with jets. Initially the single seat Vampire squadrons were favoured for formation aerobatics but the later Hunter proved to be an excellent display aircraft. By the end of the 1950s, both 92 squadron (the Blue Diamonds) and 111 Squadron (the Black Arrows) had become famous for their displays at Farnborough and other airshows.
When the Lightning entered service, the display teams continued (74 and 56 squadron both had formation teams using Lightnings) but it wasn't really suitable as it was big, heavy and expensive.
The decision was made, mainly on cost grounds, to form a team using trainers - which eventually became the Red Arrows. Initially they used Gnats and then switched to Hawks from 1980 onwards.
Oi! Eric!When the Lightning entered service, the display teams continued (74 and 56 squadron both had formation teams using Lightnings) but it wasn't really suitable as it was big, heavy and expensive.
The decision was made, mainly on cost grounds, to form a team using trainers - which eventually became the Red Arrows. Initially they used Gnats and then switched to Hawks from 1980 onwards.
Ahem!!!
Eric Mc said:
All this stopped during World War 2 so we never got to see formation aerobatics from Hurricane or Spitfire squadrons.
Those who lived in Kent and Sussex got to see some spectacular airshows in the summer of 1940, although the notcturnal airshows over London later that year weren't so well liked by the public...
Dr Jekyll said:
Eric said 'eventually became the red arrows', obviously a reference to the Yellowjacks.
I seem to recall there were a few other aerobatic teams in the 60s and early 70s, mainly using Jet Provosts. One was called the Red Pelicans I think.
Parrot? I seem to recall there were a few other aerobatic teams in the 60s and early 70s, mainly using Jet Provosts. One was called the Red Pelicans I think.
'Twas just a bit of lighthearted username based banter...
...I wasn't expecting a complete, unabridged 'History of RAF Aerobatic Display Teams' on a thread what's title has no basis in any form of fact whatsoever
Looks like someone at the Wail has been taking a blog seriously:
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/09/f-16-aggress...
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/09/f-16-aggress...
DMN said:
Looks like someone at the Wail has been taking a blog seriously:
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/09/f-16-aggress...
LOL at the comments under the article, not one suggests extending the OSD of the T1!! Just lots of waffle about the F16s which will never happen...http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/09/f-16-aggress...
Eric Mc said:
Speaking of parrots, there was also this aerobatic team -
The Macaws. The name derives from MAnby College of Air Warfare.With regard to the Yellowjacks being the original Red Arrows, while a popular story, it's not strictly true, although, like all good myths, it has some basis in truth.
As Eric said, by the early 1960's there were so many aerobatic display teams that it was felt that the RAF was concentrating on such matters to the detriment of both Operational flying as well as Flying Training; the reason being that several Fighter Sqns had teams as did virtually every FTS (Flying Training School). To this end it was decided by the powers that be to rationalise the system in 1964 and form a single, professional, display team. This responsibility fell to the Red Pelicans who were a team flying 6 Jet provost T4s and who were drawn from Staff pilots from CFS (Central Flying School) at RAF Little Rissington.
That same year, a (unofficial) 5-ship team was formed at 4FTS RAF Valley lead by Flt Lt Lee Jones flying Gnats. They were known as the Yellowjacks owing to Jones' callsign. At the end of the year Jones was posted to CFS (and promoted to Sqn Ldr) and it was decided to form a CFS display team using Gnats (with Jones as leader) to replace the Pelicans as the Official RAF team (although the latter would soldier on for a few years).
Initially the Reds formed with a 7-ship team at RAF Fairford (a satellite to Little Rissington) before moving to RAF Kemble. They became a 9-ship in 1968.
Interestingly, while the Reds are often derisively referred to as the 'Dead Sparrows', an earlier CFS display team which had formed in 1957 with Percival Provosts (and which replaced them with the Jet Provost T1 in 1958) were known as the 'Sparrows'.
aeropilot said:
And it fell to the Navy to be the ones to use a front line jet for a display team - Simons Sircus, 1968 display season.
As opposed to the RAF Hunter and Lightning teams that pre-dated them you mean?Yeah we have to save money, we have to stop the Front Line running Display Teams.
Oh, the WAFUs have a Sea Vixen Team.
Yea, Go Navy!
aeropilot said:
And it fell to the Navy to be the ones to use a front line jet for a display team - Simons Sircus, 1968 display season.
The aircrew even all had bespoke (and quite vivid!) pale lemon yellow coloured flights suits....!!
From a close-formation geek perspective, it would be interesting to know how the offset cockpit in the Sea Vixen related to the airframe references they were using.The aircrew even all had bespoke (and quite vivid!) pale lemon yellow coloured flights suits....!!
You'll note from the photo the fore-and-aft positioning is pretty much nailed - presumably they were using some feature of the horizontal stabiliser - but the lateral positioning is slightly skewed - almost as if they were using the same references from either side, but the offset cockpit perspective resulted in a slight overall position shift.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
As opposed to the RAF Hunter and Lightning teams that pre-dated them you mean?
Yeah we have to save money, we have to stop the Front Line running Display Teams.
Oh, the WAFUs have a Sea Vixen Team.
Yea, Go Navy!
Sorry - I don't quite get the point of this comment.Yeah we have to save money, we have to stop the Front Line running Display Teams.
Oh, the WAFUs have a Sea Vixen Team.
Yea, Go Navy!
By 1968 the RAF were no longer using front line fighters in their official display team.
In 1968 the Navy still were - although not for much longer.
Eric Mc said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
As opposed to the RAF Hunter and Lightning teams that pre-dated them you mean?
Yeah we have to save money, we have to stop the Front Line running Display Teams.
Oh, the WAFUs have a Sea Vixen Team.
Yea, Go Navy!
Sorry - I don't quite get the point of this comment.Yeah we have to save money, we have to stop the Front Line running Display Teams.
Oh, the WAFUs have a Sea Vixen Team.
Yea, Go Navy!
By 1968 the RAF were no longer using front line fighters in their official display team.
In 1968 the Navy still were - although not for much longer.
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