Discussion
aeropilot said:
DuraAce said:
6-10 P8's to be purchased for the RAF, paid for by the retirement of the E3 following this years forthcoming SDSR.
Just a hunch but we'll see how things play out later this year......
Aah, so you plug one capability gap in the system by creating another one somewhere else in the system.........Just a hunch but we'll see how things play out later this year......
Madness.
mph1977 said:
the P8 can;t do the Sentrys job , same as the Sentry and Sentinel can't sub hunt even if they can do some surface stuff and provide top cover for SAR efforts ... ditto with herc and SAR
Yes I know, I didn't mean to imply that (if I did). Since when does capability matter to the bean counters? Saying that the E3 doesnt do much else though. With the amount of people they employ, not doing a lot, I reckon they're prime for the chop. The AC is 25 years(ish) old and looks/feels it. hidetheelephants said:
That's utterly barking; with Putin feeling his oats we need E3 more now than at any other time since the end of the cold war.
Hmmm, I'd disagree with that but we'll see how things pan out over the next year/two.Edited by DuraAce on Wednesday 13th May 16:12
It is indeed getting old, but the fact remains it's our only AEW asset and it's a big chunk of NATO's AEW assets as well; we have that commitment and just like the 2% spend we'll look like back-sliding dicks if we chop it without good reason.
In a parallel universe I would postulate the sense of industry being invited to tender for a common platform AEW/LRMP aircraft to plug the gap, but that would fly in the face of history, the MoD's procurement record and be verging on commonsense, particularly as France is also in need of both AEW(their E3s are as old as ours) and LRMP(the Atlantique 2s must be held together with garlic paste and gooey french cheese by now). Plus ça change.
In a parallel universe I would postulate the sense of industry being invited to tender for a common platform AEW/LRMP aircraft to plug the gap, but that would fly in the face of history, the MoD's procurement record and be verging on commonsense, particularly as France is also in need of both AEW(their E3s are as old as ours) and LRMP(the Atlantique 2s must be held together with garlic paste and gooey french cheese by now). Plus ça change.
hidetheelephants said:
It is indeed getting old, but the fact remains it's our only AEW asset and it's a big chunk of NATO's AEW assets as well; we have that commitment and just like the 2% spend we'll look like back-sliding dicks if we chop it without good reason.
In a parallel universe I would postulate the sense of industry being invited to tender for a common platform AEW/LRMP aircraft to plug the gap, but that would fly in the face of history, the MoD's procurement record and be verging on commonsense, particularly as France is also in need of both AEW(their E3s are as old as ours) and LRMP(the Atlantique 2s must be held together with garlic paste and gooey french cheese by now). Plus ça change.
the UK and French aircraft are a fairly big chunk of the NATO AEW fleet - and the nato badged E3s are older than the -d s the RAF and the -Fs the french have ... not sure if the Nato aorcraft are block 35 upgraded but the RAF and French ones are apparently In a parallel universe I would postulate the sense of industry being invited to tender for a common platform AEW/LRMP aircraft to plug the gap, but that would fly in the face of history, the MoD's procurement record and be verging on commonsense, particularly as France is also in need of both AEW(their E3s are as old as ours) and LRMP(the Atlantique 2s must be held together with garlic paste and gooey french cheese by now). Plus ça change.
but like the C135 family and the BUFF i can them going on for a long time yet
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
aeropilot said:
The AEW.2 Shacks were almost 40 years old when they were retired 
Not as AEWs though, that was less than 20 years. 
Still, that's better than the RAF's 'new' RC135 Rivet Joints which were all built half a decade or more BEFORE the Nimrod's that they are replacing....
Rivet Joint and Nimrod MR1 are about the same vintage, both 1950s design and both 1960s construction.
Our E3s are approaching 3 decades, optimistically a common AEW/LRMP/sigint/whatever platform could take a decade or so to get to IOC. the RAF already have some A330 tankers and some A400M blanket haulers; adapting either of those shouldn't be beyond the wit of Airbus. If those are deemed too bloody big then the A320 could fit the bill.
aeropilot said:
hidetheelephants said:
Given how long such a programme would likely be the E3s will be at or beyond end-of-life by the time it came to fruition.
Thats OK, the AEW.2 Shacks were almost 40 years old when they were retired Edited by hidetheelephants on Wednesday 13th May 22:24
hidetheelephants said:
Rivet Joint and Nimrod MR1 are about the same vintage, both 1950s design and both 1960s construction.
The Nimrod R1's were constructed around 1970/71 and the 'new' RJ's that are replacing them were originally built around 1964/5, so, as I said, about half a decade BEFORE the a/c they are replacing.aeropilot said:
The AEW.2's were converted MR.2's all originally built in the early to mid 1950's, so my statement still stands
I know. I was twisting your tail. aeropilot said:
Still, that's better than the RAF's 'new' RC135 Rivet Joints which were all built half a decade or more BEFORE the Nimrod's that they are replacing....
Don't even get me started....Dr Jekyll said:
But the radar wasn't exactly state of the art even in 72.
The AN/APS20 Radars in the Shacks were exactly those sets as had been previously fitted to the Navy's Gannets.Prior to that the system had been fitted to the Douglas Skyraider AEW and initially to the TBM-3W Avenger in 1945!
aeropilot said:
hidetheelephants said:
Rivet Joint and Nimrod MR1 are about the same vintage, both 1950s design and both 1960s construction.
The Nimrod R1's were constructed around 1970/71 and the 'new' RJ's that are replacing them were originally built around 1964/5, so, as I said, about half a decade BEFORE the a/c they are replacing.
It is pretty limited for the money; it's supposed to loiter at FL150 while drones do the hard bit, but we probably aren't buying the drones and in Winter North Atlantic you can't see much except clouds at that altitude. No MAD tail either. Who dreams this s
t up? No doubt the berk in charge will be long gone by the time the whizzing around at 500' causes the wings to fall off prematurely. Or if the rumours about leasing them are true 500' won't be allowed lest we incur penalty charges. The range is pisspoor too, even before you start burning through fuel doing sonobouy runs at low altitude.
t up? No doubt the berk in charge will be long gone by the time the whizzing around at 500' causes the wings to fall off prematurely. Or if the rumours about leasing them are true 500' won't be allowed lest we incur penalty charges. The range is pisspoor too, even before you start burning through fuel doing sonobouy runs at low altitude.16v_paddy said:
So no mention of the Japanese MPA that's supposed to be a lot better than the P8?
It certainly looks better value than the P8 if the wiki unit cost is to be believed and it appears to have the basic accoutrements necessary like a MAD tail and lots of sonobouys and a loiter capability worth having. No doubt Kawasaki aren't willing to play the graft game to win the business and Biggles would want lots of modifications that would mysteriously make it pricier than the Poseidon. The Telegraph was talking it up at the beginning of the year.Edited by hidetheelephants on Thursday 14th May 02:39
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