Discussion
Simpo Two said:
There's a flying Catalina - we could stuff that full of modern gubbins and send it out. As long as speed isn't important.
Nah - you're thinking too small. Sunderland would be better - got beds, a galley, and becuase it was derived from a passenger craft you could even smoke on board!I was talking to an ex Sunderland crew member at our remembrance parade this year and he was full of fond memories of them - even if, as the youngest and newest sprog on board, he spent most of each patrol making tea and sarnies. He reckoned that was better then staring out of a porthole with a pair of Barr & Stouds held to his eyes.
I saw the film Battleship at the weekend. Perhaps, if we went to look at the Sunderland (Duxford?), some veterans would appear from nowhere, help us get the old bird going again, we'd find some bombs from somewhere, then take off and sink the sub just before it fires its torpedoes...?
Simpo Two said:
I saw the film Battleship at the weekend. Perhaps, if we went to look at the Sunderland (Duxford?), some veterans would appear from nowhere, help us get the old bird going again, we'd find some bombs from somewhere, then take off and sink the sub just before it fires its torpedoes...?
Yertis said:
But... we don't have a flying Sunderland.
We could ask that nice Kermit Weeks chap if we can buy his back. That was the last airworthy one I can think of.Or, as posted above, we could pinch the ones in various museums: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Sunderland#Surv... Perhaps BAE could give us a mind-bendingly stupid quote to get them serviceable?
The Sunderland cousin, the Sandringham at Southampton's Solent Sky museum was being flown up until the money ran out in 1981.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Antilles-Air-Boats/...
Been kept inside since then so could come out again with some work I'm sure. Comfier than a Sunderland
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Antilles-Air-Boats/...
Been kept inside since then so could come out again with some work I'm sure. Comfier than a Sunderland
Ryan T said:
labour, doing the worst project management ever, killed Nimrod. Cameron made the correct choice. We couldn't keep pouring money into a pit at that point in Time..
While I agree that Labour couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery, Cameron binned a project that was up and working. In doing so the money that had been spent was wasted. At the end of the day however, Nimrod is dead. We can argue the ins and outs of budgets (and £billions of overseas aid) but it's all rather moot in that we have lost a core capability that we are unlikely to ever regain. As I said before, for an Island nation this is scandalous.Ryan T said:
Also are we forgetting, we have subs to watch the sea.
You obviously have no concept of the reach, rapid response, and flexibility of operation that a LRMPA can bring. A sub can not.Ryan T said:
P8 is a good platform. And the way forward IMO. Loads of parts, plenty of skillset to maintain them in our own country.
I disagree. There are a number of reasons why P8 is the wrong platform (aside from cost), not least its inability to operate at low level.ecsrobin said:
So ginetta what would be your solution to the problem? Obviously we cant have nimrod back so what aircraft out there is up to the job?
In the short term I'd be looking at leasing P3s. In the long term I'd be looking at the Kawasaki P-1.Thinking out of the box but why do we even need any patrol at all?
I would have expected us to have the technology in space floating around our overhead that can observe the UK territorial waters, land and borders beyond even what we should be observing 24hr/day 7 days/week 52 weeks/year?
With these satellite's floating above us all the time snooping at anything and everything shouldn't be that difficult. The software then analyses the images and then redistributes the interesting imagery to all the different departments to view. Maybe needs something far more advanced than that I dunno but that is where I would invest my £'s if I had a say in the matter.
Would then keep the Sentinal's on standby ready to investigate?
I would have expected us to have the technology in space floating around our overhead that can observe the UK territorial waters, land and borders beyond even what we should be observing 24hr/day 7 days/week 52 weeks/year?
With these satellite's floating above us all the time snooping at anything and everything shouldn't be that difficult. The software then analyses the images and then redistributes the interesting imagery to all the different departments to view. Maybe needs something far more advanced than that I dunno but that is where I would invest my £'s if I had a say in the matter.
Would then keep the Sentinal's on standby ready to investigate?
How does a satellite find a submarine? How does a satellite sink a submarine?
How does it do ASuW?
How does it do EW?
How does it do Targetting? Tactical direction? Attack support?
How does it do SAR?
How does it protect our Trident boats when they deploy?
How does it do Rig protection?
How does it do 'Scene of Search' command?
I could go on, but the point is that a LRMPA does a wide range of roles, not merely 'patrolling'.
How does it do ASuW?
How does it do EW?
How does it do Targetting? Tactical direction? Attack support?
How does it do SAR?
How does it protect our Trident boats when they deploy?
How does it do Rig protection?
How does it do 'Scene of Search' command?
I could go on, but the point is that a LRMPA does a wide range of roles, not merely 'patrolling'.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
How does a satellite find a submarine? How does a satellite sink a submarine?
How does it do ASuW?
How does it do EW?
How does it do Targetting? Tactical direction? Attack support?
How does it do SAR?
How does it protect our Trident boats when they deploy?
How does it do Rig protection?
How does it do 'Scene of Search' command?
I could go on, but the point is that a LRMPA does a wide range of roles, not merely 'patrolling'.
Also the non inconsequential issue of having to have this satellite in geo-stationary orbit, and hence 36,000Km away, meaning you're going to need some pretty good sensors to actually see anything!How does it do ASuW?
How does it do EW?
How does it do Targetting? Tactical direction? Attack support?
How does it do SAR?
How does it protect our Trident boats when they deploy?
How does it do Rig protection?
How does it do 'Scene of Search' command?
I could go on, but the point is that a LRMPA does a wide range of roles, not merely 'patrolling'.
(or have lots of satellites in lower orbits, but which waste most of their time imaging the rest of the world rather than the UK)
Pretty quickly that's going to make a whole fleet of Nimrods look like good value.........
Yertis said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
In the long term I'd be looking at the Kawasaki P-1.
Makes me want to hang my head in shame...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_P-1
wikipedia said:
The XP-1's first flight took place at Gifu Air Base in Japan on 28 September 2007. The flight lasted about one hour, and ended successfully. The P-X was redesignated XP-1 at this time.
As of March 2010, Kawasaki Heavy Industries has delivered four XP-1 maritime patrol test aircraft to Japan's Ministry of Defense.
On 8 August 2011, the Japanese Ministry of Defense announced that two aircraft used for ground testing had developed tears in various parts of the craft, including the fuel tank and central part of the fuselage.[11] Repairs were planned to reinforce the affected areas.
Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force took delivery of its first two P-1s on 26 March 2013, ahead of a planned two years of test flights. However, the planes were grounded on 14 May 2013, after one developed unstable combustion in some of its engines in flight.
Why does Japan spell Defence with an S?As of March 2010, Kawasaki Heavy Industries has delivered four XP-1 maritime patrol test aircraft to Japan's Ministry of Defense.
On 8 August 2011, the Japanese Ministry of Defense announced that two aircraft used for ground testing had developed tears in various parts of the craft, including the fuel tank and central part of the fuselage.[11] Repairs were planned to reinforce the affected areas.
Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force took delivery of its first two P-1s on 26 March 2013, ahead of a planned two years of test flights. However, the planes were grounded on 14 May 2013, after one developed unstable combustion in some of its engines in flight.
zoomy said:
With these satellite's floating above us all the time snooping at anything and everything shouldn't be that difficult.
I find it's a good rule of thumb, that if you ever find yourself saying the above (especially if it includes the word "just"), then it means, "it's very difficult, I simply don't understand it" SlipStream77 said:
Is the C295 a possibility?
It's a bit short on range, dash speed, sensor fit and weapons payload. It looks more of a Littoral MPA rather than a LRMPA.I'd also want 4 engines for operating far out over the ogsplash at low level.
Ideally you want a jet rather than a turboprop (yes I know the P3 has Alison T56 engines)
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
In the short term I'd be looking at leasing P3s. In the long term I'd be looking at the Kawasaki P-1.
So short term we lease an old airframe the Americans are retiring, which would cost more than a new airframe to maintain, to then buy once again an untested newer aircraft?Also in regards to subs, you argued they dont have the range of a LRMPA. Care to explain that theory?
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