I fancy getting into Kayaking

I fancy getting into Kayaking

Author
Discussion

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
quotequote all
So, as you've probably guessed, I'm tempted to buy a Kayak.
Mainly wide open rivers slowly flowing to the sea here. I'd probably go as far as the river mouth into the sea, but don't fancy the open sea much, rivers are more my thing. Not much white water local, so just wide open rivers to explore.

A lot of sit on Kayaks here, but I've always seen myself in a sit in kayak (not really knowing I could get two different types!), and upon reading up on them, I'm still thinking sit in.

Not as many on the local second hand market here, but here's two I've eye'd up and I'd like your some opinions.

Ideally second hand as new is quite pricey. These nudge the £400 barrier, so are not too bad.

Anyone know the manufactures?

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/safety-beach/kayaks...

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/nana-glen/kayaks-pa...


Being the wide open space that this country (Oz) is, things ideal have to be locallish in the big scheme.

The idea would be for two Kayaks, one for myself and then one for the partner. Being smaller, does this affect the choice for her. I'm assuming Kayaks are unisexed.


Also I notice that Kayaks can have rudders. I gather just to help toe a straight line.



Edited by Gingerbread Man on Wednesday 10th December 22:04

eggchaser1987

1,608 posts

148 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
quotequote all
I can't help you with anything at the moment, but I shall be keeping.an.eye on.what's said.

Parents didn't know what to get me for a birthday present last year, knowing do a bit.of.surfing they for my an open kayak that can be used for the sea/surfing type, ocean fishing and canals. But of a do it all one to try my hand at.

Only managed to get out in it a couple of times, once canal and once surfing.

Looking forward to using it more next year.

vanordinaire

3,701 posts

161 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
quotequote all
I don't know about the club scene in Australia, but in the UK I'd advise anyone to join a local club and try the various types of kayaking before even thinking about buying. Also, a suitable boat for a beginner isn't going to hold your attention long once you've got some basic skills. It's similar to motorbiking in that a beginner might find a 125 commuter ideal for the first few months or so but will very quickly be looking for something very different. If you have to buy just now then I'd give you the same advice as I would to a would-be biker, buy second hand something you can easily sell on again in a few months.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
quotequote all
Second hand was my market. The two listed are local.

jep

1,183 posts

208 months

Wednesday 10th December 2014
quotequote all
Where abouts in Hants are you? I know a bit about them as a mate of mine imports Tahe kayaks, (one of the biggest makers of canoes and kayaks) and makes canoes himself. He's got a number of dealers down your neck of the woods, and all of them can help you decide on what fits you best by trying a number of different boats.

In answer to your question about rudders, yes, you can get rudders for them, and these are controlled by adjustable foot pedals. There are also optional retractable skegs on some boats. In general, the longer the boat, the easier it is to progress, and the wider it is, the more stable in the water. Downside is that you lose manoeuvrability and it's harder to make sharper turns. Multi-layer HDPE and composite boats are faster than single layer PE boats as they are stiffer, and can therefore transfer more energy into forward momentum. Paddle length and blade shape also affect your efficiency and speed through the water as your physical shape and paddling style in a particular boat influences how much of the blade breaks the surface. All of these factors influence how long you can stay out on the water. Also look to see how many bulkheads are in the boat, as even at your budget ideally there will be 2 that separate your cockpit from the bow and stern storage areas, but you may find some with 3 giving you a small watertight day compartment that is easier to get into while out on the water.

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
Daggers a well known brand in the UK. I've not heard of axial but the boat looks ok, if you can find more from the in Au they probably won't be too bad. Both of those look like touring boats (ie slightly too short to be full on sea boats) but will be fine in most chop. I wouldn't suggest going near anything white apart from breaking waves in them though as they'll be slow to turn.
They both have skegs, not rudders. Skegs drop down to keep the boat tracking straight, rudders let you turn it, usually by moving your feet. This can be hard to get used to. The skeg is adjusted by the type along side the cockpit, or the latch that's moulded in below it.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
Ahh, I need to update my profile. I'm in Australia as of 6 weeks ago.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
Right, I read up earlier on rudders vs Skegs etc. Seem simple enough to understand and I get their being there. All in they seem very similar at the end of the day.

Mostly rivers here, no real current locally, but I know that would require a different boat, shorter, wider, more nimble.

Ideally we want some dry storage, so that's a must really. Those two are the only Gumtree ones that are local it seems. I'm looking into eBay and forums now.

I gather from these replies rhat these kayaks maybe fine for the sea and rivers??

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
I'm about to buy a pyranha fusion crossover for river and sea duties. Not sure if you can get them down under but they're a very usable and versatile boat, portable and would appear to tick all your boxes. £400 would get you a decent second hand jobber here.

Edit now I'm on a PC and not my phone...

My little boat club have got a collection of sit ons, sit-ins, sea kayaks, canadians etc. We're getting pretty good at choosing universal boats that are good for all uses. smile

The longer, more pointed boats are good for the sea but are possibly a little large for rivers. And you certainly wouldn't want to go over anything remotely white in one. They're designed for trackability, and really need the rudder to steer because they are so long.

I would go for a skegged boat. A rudder, whilst useful, is potentially a little overkill on a shorter kayak. You can steer effectively enough with just the paddle. If touring, drop the skeg and forget about it. They're generally hinged so it's quite hard to damage one in the real world.

A sit in has the potentail to fill u with water if you topple it, and can be a little trickier to get back in to when in waves/rougher water. A sit-on (SOT) kayak is extremely easy to use, and to right, and re-enter. You can get SOTs for not a lot of money, and most have a dry storage area. TBH, a decent dry bag can be better than a supposed dry "hatch" on a boat.

This is similar to my first boat - a great learner tool and did me 5 years of universal use, from sea to touring to playing.


This is a crossover type, that will do pretty much anything you ask of it. Easier to carry and load than a longer sea kayak.


This is what I'm going for. Like I say, £400 should get you a second hand one here, not sure about prices down under.


I bloody love kayaking. smile

Edited by OpulentBob on Thursday 11th December 09:30

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

197 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
I'd look at a sit on top tandem boat for your needs. You can rig them for either solo or tandem use and it's more sociable when there's two of you. It also a benefit when there is a disparity in technique / fitness with your padelling buddy.


Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
rhinochopig said:
I'd look at a sit on top tandem boat for your needs. You can rig them for either solo or tandem use and it's more sociable when there's two of you. It also a benefit when there is a disparity in technique / fitness with your padelling buddy.
Who said that I wanted to socialise! hehe

We both want seperate I'm afraid. One wants to go one way, one the other. Can't see it to be honest.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
I'm about to buy a pyranha fusion crossover for river and sea duties. Not sure if you can get them down under but they're a very usable and versatile boat, portable and would appear to tick all your boxes. £400 would get you a decent second hand jobber here.

Edit now I'm on a PC and not my phone...

My little boat club have got a collection of sit ons, sit-ins, sea kayaks, canadians etc. We're getting pretty good at choosing universal boats that are good for all uses. smile

The longer, more pointed boats are good for the sea but are possibly a little large for rivers. And you certainly wouldn't want to go over anything remotely white in one. They're designed for trackability, and really need the rudder to steer because they are so long.

I would go for a skegged boat. A rudder, whilst useful, is potentially a little overkill on a shorter kayak. You can steer effectively enough with just the paddle. If touring, drop the skeg and forget about it. They're generally hinged so it's quite hard to damage one in the real world.

A sit in has the potentail to fill u with water if you topple it, and can be a little trickier to get back in to when in waves/rougher water. A sit-on (SOT) kayak is extremely easy to use, and to right, and re-enter. You can get SOTs for not a lot of money, and most have a dry storage area. TBH, a decent dry bag can be better than a supposed dry "hatch" on a boat.

This is similar to my first boat - a great learner tool and did me 5 years of universal use, from sea to touring to playing.


This is a crossover type, that will do pretty much anything you ask of it. Easier to carry and load than a longer sea kayak.


This is what I'm going for. Like I say, £400 should get you a second hand one here, not sure about prices down under.


I bloody love kayaking. smile

Edited by OpulentBob on Thursday 11th December 09:30
I long to use a PC again. Been surfing from a phone for over 6 weeks now, the container arriving will be a blessing.

Anyhow! The ones above are roughly 4m's long. Good to know I could jump into the sea with them, but it'll be slow rivers really. I guess adding a spray cover/ skirt will see me fine in the sea?

No real white water this close to shore. A few hours drive to the good stuff I hear.

I've read the phrase for a both open sit on tops and sit ins. I still think the sit in tickles my fancy.

Kayaking does look a good time.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
If it helps, I believe the Azul is a rebranded Riot Enduro 13.

Asking a shop the pro/ cons of sit on vs sit in Kayaks today, she told me that Sit UN's cab sink if a bail out goes wrong. Without a spray skirt, I'm sure some water would splash in even on gentle waters.

If I Eskimo rolled it, would it gather too much water? Google surgests adding floatation to the kayak so if all goes tits up, it doesn't sink at least!

Is it a real problem?

Edited by Gingerbread Man on Friday 12th December 10:36

jhfozzy

1,345 posts

189 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
Gingerbread Man said:
If it helps, I believe the Azul is a rebranded Riot Enduro 13.

Asking a shop the pro/ cons of sit on vs sit in Kayaks today, she told me that Sit UN's cab sink if a bail out goes wrong. Without a spray skirt, I'm sure some water would splash in even on gentle waters.

If I Eskimo rolled it, would it gather too much water? Google surgests adding floatation to the kayak so if all goes tits up, it doesn't sink at least!

Is it a real problem?

Edited by Gingerbread Man on Friday 12th December 10:36
I would 100% recommend airbags if you buy a "sit-in", simple to install and saves a lot of grief. Most kayaks are plastic so should float or sit just under the surface even with with no flotation.

If you're in estuary or open water and have no intention of whitewater yet, get a longer boat, 10ft+ with a skeg. I've always been into sport kayaks, whitewater etc, but as we've both started instructing my brother has just bought an 11ft touring kayak. I know they are built for different things, but the difference in speed between my in-a-zone 230 and his tourer is night and day, it is so easy to paddle.

Always use a spray deck to stop splashes and learn to roll it if you don't know already.

Join a local club and get used to the boat in a pool if possible.

Let someone know where you are and don't be tempted to go it alone unless you are VERY confident and people know where you are at all times.

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
jhfozzy said:
I would 100% recommend airbags if you buy a "sit-in", simple to install and saves a lot of grief. Most kayaks are plastic so should float or sit just under the surface even with with no flotation.

If you're in estuary or open water and have no intention of whitewater yet, get a longer boat, 10ft+ with a skeg. I've always been into sport kayaks, whitewater etc, but as we've both started instructing my brother has just bought an 11ft touring kayak. I know they are built for different things, but the difference in speed between my in-a-zone 230 and his tourer is night and day, it is so easy to paddle.

Always use a spray deck to stop splashes and learn to roll it if you don't know already.

Join a local club and get used to the boat in a pool if possible.

Let someone know where you are and don't be tempted to go it alone unless you are VERY confident and people know where you are at all times.
As he says sit ins won't sink unless you really really try. Air bags to stop some water getting really help make it lighter/easier to rescue though.
I definitely prefer sit in with a spray deck. When you get it find a sheltered shallow area and tip yourself upside down with and without the deck- its very easy to pop out. If you can find a club/pool then so much the better.
One thing to watch out for is planning your paddles. Even on big 'flat' rivers there can be a lot of flow making you much slower one way than the other.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
I believe you can go up and down with the tide slightly. I'm basically on the coast but there are a few river mouths into the sea around here.

Would live White Water but I know that's a different boat, maybe in the future depending on what's local.

I have some expirence but little so will obviously take it slow. Will Kayak with the girlfriend mostly, of not always.

Seen the air bags on tinternet so I'm already there. A lanyard from kayak to paddle seemed wise.

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
Gingerbread Man said:
I believe you can go up and down with the tide slightly. I'm basically on the coast but there are a few river mouths into the sea around here.

Would live White Water but I know that's a different boat, maybe in the future depending on what's local.

I have some expirence but little so will obviously take it slow. Will Kayak with the girlfriend mostly, of not always.

Seen the air bags on tinternet so I'm already there. A lanyard from kayak to paddle seemed wise.
Tides are an extra challenge for you smile they come with waves which can be fun as well.
Lanyards can be dangerous- eg you fall out and get it wrapped round you. They're good if you want to put the paddle down to fish/take photos though. Fall out once or twice and you'll be surprised to find that its easy to hang on to your paddle.

Gingerbread Man

Original Poster:

9,171 posts

212 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
I could one day paddle down river, through the waves and into the sea. I'd be unstoppable. Looking forward to it.

Tomorrow night I have a wildlife kayak outing with the missus on a tour. See how it goes. Sit on kayaks also.

jhfozzy

1,345 posts

189 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
mcdjl said:
Lanyards can be dangerous- eg you fall out and get it wrapped round you.
I agree, lanyards freak me out. It's all good until it goes bad. Possibly useful on open calm water, but then why would you need it. My paddle sits on my deck if needed, my brother's boat has a nifty little hook system similar to this that releases automatically when you pick up the paddle.


mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
Gingerbread Man said:
I could one day paddle down river, through the waves and into the sea. I'd be unstoppable. Looking forward to it.

Tomorrow night I have a wildlife kayak outing with the missus on a tour. See how it goes. Sit on kayaks also.
Can I come? If i got on a plane now i might make it wink