Tornado vs Typhoon

[Pickled]

tight5 said:

yeah , was one of these though

I always thought MiG 25/31 was a high altitude high speed interceptor, wasn't the Foxbat rumoured to be able to catch the SR71?

[onyx39]

z06tim said:

Eurofighter definitely made some pretty early appearances at airshows well before delivery to the RAF.

I can recall seeing one at Fairford in the mid to late 90's. Also remember the display being a bit tame, for fear of giving away any capability.

This link seems to confirm it displayed as early as 1995: http://www.paulnann.com/Location.asp?Location=Fair...

Confirmed, first Farnborough show was 96.

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/typhoon/development.h...

[anonymous-user]

onyx39 said:

I knew it wasn't an RAF one, hence the carefully chosen use of the word Eurofighter as opposed to Typhoon.

I used to go to Fighter Meet and don't think that I missed any during the 1990s. The first time I saw the Eurofighter Typhoon was at the Queen's Jubilee Flypast in 2002. The last Fighter Meet was 1997.

Intrepid did a couple of shows following Fighter Meet's demise in the late 90's.

[V8 Fettler]

aeropilot said:

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

SlipStream77 said:

Lost soul said:

Pretty sure the Typhoon would be better at everything the Tornado does

The Tornado is probably still the best high speed / low level strike aircraft in the world.

Indeed.

Also, there's nothing with wings as fast 'down on the deck' as a Tonka.

With full external weapons load (as original design)? No. Starfighter.

Actually both were service limited to the same speed, 750KIAS. However, I know of a RAF pilot that did an exchange tour on the 104 that personally saw 810KIAS at 100ft ASL, and I've seen several ex-RAF Tonka F3 pilots with claims of 870-900KIAS with the F3 in clean config.

If we're talking about a/c no longer in service, but was at the time the '104 was, the F-111 had a higher KIAS limit than the 104 - 800KIAS.

There may be some confusion here regarding service limit, design limit and capability.

[williamp]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Was that the flypast where it flew on its own, and seemed a lot higher then the others? I was there too, if so. First ime I saw it. Caused a real stir in the crowd.

[aeropilot]

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

SlipStream77 said:

Lost soul said:

Pretty sure the Typhoon would be better at everything the Tornado does

The Tornado is probably still the best high speed / low level strike aircraft in the world.

Indeed.

Also, there's nothing with wings as fast 'down on the deck' as a Tonka.

With full external weapons load (as original design)? No. Starfighter.

Actually both were service limited to the same speed, 750KIAS. However, I know of a RAF pilot that did an exchange tour on the 104 that personally saw 810KIAS at 100ft ASL, and I've seen several ex-RAF Tonka F3 pilots with claims of 870-900KIAS with the F3 in clean config.

If we're talking about a/c no longer in service, but was at the time the '104 was, the F-111 had a higher KIAS limit than the 104 - 800KIAS.

There may be some confusion here regarding service limit, design limit and capability.

I'm not confused?

[anonymous-user]

williamp said:

Was that the flypast where it flew on its own, and seemed a lot higher then the others? I was there too, if so. First ime I saw it. Caused a real stir in the crowd.

Yes that's the one. It was a BAe development aircraft, so was not in formation with the other military aircraft.

I saw the formation from Hainault Country Park.

[IanMorewood]

Pickled said:

I always thought MiG 25/31 was a high altitude high speed interceptor, wasn't the Foxbat rumoured to be able to catch the SR71?

Yup Sweddish air traffic control witnessed several successful intercepts on high flying blackbirds just outside Soviet airspace. Admittedly after being illuminated the blackbirds still had the space to turn and run but it's mission over at that point.

[V8 Fettler]

aeropilot said:

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

SlipStream77 said:

Lost soul said:

Pretty sure the Typhoon would be better at everything the Tornado does

The Tornado is probably still the best high speed / low level strike aircraft in the world.

Indeed.

Also, there's nothing with wings as fast 'down on the deck' as a Tonka.

With full external weapons load (as original design)? No. Starfighter.

Actually both were service limited to the same speed, 750KIAS. However, I know of a RAF pilot that did an exchange tour on the 104 that personally saw 810KIAS at 100ft ASL, and I've seen several ex-RAF Tonka F3 pilots with claims of 870-900KIAS with the F3 in clean config.

If we're talking about a/c no longer in service, but was at the time the '104 was, the F-111 had a higher KIAS limit than the 104 - 800KIAS.

There may be some confusion here regarding service limit, design limit and capability.

I'm not confused?

Are you not comparing service limits and (reported) achieved speeds? Two different things. Also potential confusion between clean and full payload.

We need a race.

[onyx39]

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

V8 Fettler said:

aeropilot said:

SlipStream77 said:

Lost soul said:

Pretty sure the Typhoon would be better at everything the Tornado does

The Tornado is probably still the best high speed / low level strike aircraft in the world.

Indeed.

Also, there's nothing with wings as fast 'down on the deck' as a Tonka.

With full external weapons load (as original design)? No. Starfighter.

Actually both were service limited to the same speed, 750KIAS. However, I know of a RAF pilot that did an exchange tour on the 104 that personally saw 810KIAS at 100ft ASL, and I've seen several ex-RAF Tonka F3 pilots with claims of 870-900KIAS with the F3 in clean config.

If we're talking about a/c no longer in service, but was at the time the '104 was, the F-111 had a higher KIAS limit than the 104 - 800KIAS.

There may be some confusion here regarding service limit, design limit and capability.

I'm not confused?

Are you not comparing service limits and (reported) achieved speeds? Two different things. Also potential confusion between clean and full payload.

We need a race.

I wonder if the top gear team are reading this?

[V8 Fettler]

Competitors:

Starfighter
F-111
Tonka
Thud
Bucc
Phantom
TSR-2
Something Soviet

[Pickled]

V8 Fettler said:

Competitors:

Starfighter
F-111
Tonka
Thud
Bucc
Phantom
TSR-2
Something Soviet

Su-24?
MiG 27?
Jaguar?

[Halmyre]

V8 Fettler said:

Competitors:

Starfighter
F-111
Tonka
Thud
Bucc
Phantom
TSR-2
Something Soviet

Looking at the Starfighter, my thought is, what idiot persuasive salesman reckoned that would make a good multi-role fighter-bomber? I do appreciate that, looking at the history of the thing, some money may have changed hands...

[V8 Fettler]

Halmyre said:

V8 Fettler said:

Competitors:

Starfighter
F-111
Tonka
Thud
Bucc
Phantom
TSR-2
Something Soviet

Looking at the Starfighter, my thought is, what idiot persuasive salesman reckoned that would make a good multi-role fighter-bomber? I do appreciate that, looking at the history of the thing, some money may have changed hands...

I doubt if it was originally designed for low-level ground attack!

[davepoth]

IanMorewood said:

Pickled said:

I always thought MiG 25/31 was a high altitude high speed interceptor, wasn't the Foxbat rumoured to be able to catch the SR71?

Yup Sweddish air traffic control witnessed several successful intercepts on high flying blackbirds just outside Soviet airspace. Admittedly after being illuminated the blackbirds still had the space to turn and run but it's mission over at that point.

But bear in mind that the MiG 25/31 isn't a specialist thing like the SR-71 - it's a conventional fighter plane, just with extremely large and powerful engines. That's how it can break the speed of sound at sea level.

[EC225Eng]

The twin man, twin fan, aluminium arrow of death! Wins every time as the Americans hated them near their bases as they were dirty, noisy and just plain aggressive. Loved my time on the GR4 but not as much as my rotary time.

[IanMorewood]

From what I understand a regular flight would go near the Soviet border to take side view photos of a submarine base in the Baltic. So when your radar sees a Blackbird coming in high and fast you scramble the fighters send them as high and fast as they can go to point X where you anticipate your aircraft are going to be in a similar bit of sky.

The Russians got this to a fine art after a while and an interceptor would turn up a few thousand feet below and a couple of miles behind the regular flight.

[Halmyre]

V8 Fettler said:

Halmyre said:

V8 Fettler said:

Competitors:

Starfighter
F-111
Tonka
Thud
Bucc
Phantom
TSR-2
Something Soviet

Looking at the Starfighter, my thought is, what idiot persuasive salesman reckoned that would make a good multi-role fighter-bomber? I do appreciate that, looking at the history of the thing, some money may have changed hands...

I doubt if it was originally designed for low-level ground attack!

That's the point I was trying to make. It's like converting a Mustang into an Econoline van.

[Eric Mc]

There was only one other jet powered, supersonic capable multi-role fighter/bomber in existence at the time - the relatively new and expensive F-4 Phantom. And that was a lot more expensive.

Although the bribes scandal was real, the clincher for the F-104 deal was the offer to European nations to allow them to actually build it in their own country. In many ways, the European based Starfighter construction programme was the first pan European collaborative programme and paved the way for all the other consortiums that emerged in the 1970s and 1980s, So, without the Starfighter, we might not have had Tornado or Typhoon.

The F-104G/S/CF-104 was a very different animal to the original F-104A/C family.

[Dr Jekyll]

Swing wings do seem to be the aeronautical equivalent of pop up headlamps, why aren't they used on new models? Is it simply that modern wing designs make the weight and complication unnecessary?
Or is it that fighter pilots don't like the way the sweep angle tells the enemy whether they are planning to manoeuvre or disengage bravely?