Bear in the air
Discussion
Yertis said:
There was quiet an interesting ting about this on R4 a few minutes ago. Difference between Ukraine and the Baltics is that the latter are already part of the EU and want to stay that way, even the ethnic russians therein. In Ukraine he's 'pushing on an open door', in the Baltics that won't be the case. Hopefully.
Sorry, I meant Euro not EU. Agreed Ukraine was a softer target though. Pick the easy ones first and judge world reaction accordingly...aeropilot said:
Except, he wanted to avenge the Versailles Treaty so, once we (Europe collectively) didn't do anything to stop the first phase, he felt we(collective) equally wouldn't do anything if he went further.
Putin could easily take the same view - we really don't know what his intensions are tbh.
True, but I doubt he has intentions beyond former USSR borders, main reason being that whilst Putin pushes a very strong nationalist message his bigger agenda is economic and a large scale tussle with NATO would be ever so bad for business given that a lot Russia's economy is dependent/based upon the West. The restoration of Ukraine to the Russian sphere of influence is important to Putin on both a nationalist and economic level. Especially as in the East of Ukraine there's a hell of a lot of mineral and industrial wealth and Western Ukraine has productive (by Russian standards) agricultural roots. Putin could easily take the same view - we really don't know what his intensions are tbh.
I'm not sure he'd even bother with the Baltic States due to their small size and relatively low economic worth. Coupled with their membership of NATO/Euro zone and the different response from the West that this would generate not worth his time and effort tbh.
But we'll see, just a lot of sabre rattling in my humble opinion. Would love to see a Bear fly past though, if I was insanely rich would love to buy one (ignoring the whole backup needed to run such a thing)
ecain63 said:
Non-news. The Russians have been doing this for decades. It's only due to the current shenanegins that the press are getting involved.
they've flown bears around but they've not sent them up the English channel for a long while. Its most definitely an escalation and a bloody nuisance to civil air traffich8tax said:
DeuxCentCinq said:
CharlieCrocodile said:
Video of the intercept - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnZMy1WWjZs
Show them the armaments!
dr_gn said:
h8tax said:
DeuxCentCinq said:
CharlieCrocodile said:
Video of the intercept - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnZMy1WWjZs
Show them the armaments!The Bear thing is a complete diversion and a useful pr stunt to focus public opinion away from the real objective of a bigger Ukraine land grab. We are powerless to stop the ruskies without US support so no point wondering how our dreadfully under resourced armed forces could 'fend them off'...
subirg said:
The Bear thing is a complete diversion and a useful pr stunt to focus public opinion away from the real objective of a bigger Ukraine land grab. We are powerless to stop the ruskies without US support so no point wondering how our dreadfully under resourced armed forces could 'fend them off'...
It's an interesting point. By doing this the Russians have alerted a generally ignorant UK about the state of its air defences. Whilst we are obviously in no position to 'take on' Russia alone and nor would we wish to in any circumstances, I think people at least expect us to be able to put up some sort of decent resistance if for some reason, NATO notwithstanding, Russia (or anyone else) decided to have a pop at us. If I heard the radio correctly this morning our fast jet squadrons have been depleted from 26 or so in the late '80s to 6, of which four are air defence capable and two of those are actually multi-role. It's pretty pathetic really.The only 'upside' (and it's pretty depressing that we even need to have this discussion to be honest) is that Russia's capabilities are also very degraded, numbers-wise, since the old USSR days.
No doubt Russia could flatten us in a few days if they actually wanted to - Spetsnaz vs lardy benefits family watching Eastenders - but I can't see why they would. We were strategically important when stuff was heading from west to east, but I'm not sure the reverse is true - we're a geographic dead end with few resources of interest I think.
As for NATO I seem to recall that few of its members have actually contributed their agreed share and I doubt some have much stomach for a fight.
As for the decline in the armed forces, it is entirely typical of peacetime. There is much to be said for being the biggest kid in the playground, but those days are gone.
As for NATO I seem to recall that few of its members have actually contributed their agreed share and I doubt some have much stomach for a fight.
As for the decline in the armed forces, it is entirely typical of peacetime. There is much to be said for being the biggest kid in the playground, but those days are gone.
Is it just Bears we getting coming for a sniff and a look? As much as I like the old bird, it's getting a bit humdrum now and it would be more interesting to see a Backfire, or even a Blackjack....
I vaguely recall reading something about a Blackjack conducting a "mock attack" on the East Coast of the UK a few years ago, and how it supposedly got to within 90 seconds of land before it was detected - I assume it was coming in low and fast.
I vaguely recall reading something about a Blackjack conducting a "mock attack" on the East Coast of the UK a few years ago, and how it supposedly got to within 90 seconds of land before it was detected - I assume it was coming in low and fast.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
ecsrobin
What do you mean an SA 80?
Firstly SA80 is a family of weapons. Hint: It stands for Small Arms 1980 and includes the L85A3 (the IW), L86A2 (the LSW) and L98A2 (The Cadet GP Rifle) amongst others.
Secondly to claim that 800m is double the range of the SA80 family is, quite frankly, buying in to the negative hype.
From the PAM 5: L85/L98 are effective in Section Fire out to 600m. L86 is effective out to 800m in single shot fire.
To anyone trained on the L85 fitted with a SUSAT then it is individually effective to 600m.
Furthermore, while there are (quite serious) limitations to the 5.56 x 45 mm round the SA80 family are inherently more accurate than was the L1A1 Self Loadin Rifle (SLR) and the L4 LMG.
Only just read this. Some of the guys are getting narked, it gave me a semi... What do you mean an SA 80?
Firstly SA80 is a family of weapons. Hint: It stands for Small Arms 1980 and includes the L85A3 (the IW), L86A2 (the LSW) and L98A2 (The Cadet GP Rifle) amongst others.
Secondly to claim that 800m is double the range of the SA80 family is, quite frankly, buying in to the negative hype.
From the PAM 5: L85/L98 are effective in Section Fire out to 600m. L86 is effective out to 800m in single shot fire.
To anyone trained on the L85 fitted with a SUSAT then it is individually effective to 600m.
Furthermore, while there are (quite serious) limitations to the 5.56 x 45 mm round the SA80 family are inherently more accurate than was the L1A1 Self Loadin Rifle (SLR) and the L4 LMG.
aeropilot said:
I can still vividly recall seeing that Backfire flying over north west London....
Where's the Joker "Not sure whether serious" meme pic when you need it....?Visiting for an airshow or something, or am I due a whoosh-parrot for not realising that I'm being gently mocked....?
Lurking Lawyer said:
aeropilot said:
I can still vividly recall seeing that Backfire flying over north west London....
Where's the Joker "Not sure whether serious" meme pic when you need it....?Visiting for an airshow or something, or am I due a whoosh-parrot for not realising that I'm being gently mocked....?
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