Bear in the air
Discussion
stitchface said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Does Ireland have air defence zone?
Dunno, but they aren't part of the NATO air defence effort. I don't think they have any aircraft capable of intercepting anything anyway.JeremyH5 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Not quite recent, but there was a French warship at Waterloo which was captured by the royal navy
Eh? I know it was a bit boggy down the French end of the field but I didn't know they had ships in the middle of Belgium!
Still, Trafalgar means it's even older.
Mojocvh said:
two air defence bases..You would also be surprised to hear that the GR Tornado fleet has been at "war" for over 30 years, continuously, and you would be very surprised to learn where numbers of them are sitting right now just......
.....waiting...
I'd take that as operations in a hostile theatre, rather than peacetime flying/training.
In which case, I'd say 25 year max, as first deployment in a 'war zone' was in the build up to Desert Storm in late 1990.
But otherwise, yes, they've certainly done their bit during the past quarter of a century, by all it's operators, not just the RAF.
Dr Jekyll said:
Condi said:
The Bear first flew in 1952, and entered service in 1956. Its expected to remain in service until 2040, which is an active life of nearly 85 years. Are there any other bits of kit in recent times (ie not swords and shields!) which have been in service that long? Thats like using HMS Hood in a modern naval battle.
Browning M1911 automatics are still in use worldwide, and the design is supposed to date back before 1900. Even some US SWAT teams and FBI have now 'returned' to using various combat specials of the 1911.
Seems to be a trend after experience in over a decades war in the middle-east, as some US mil units sought to dig out old 7.62 M14 rifles as well, as the 7.62 does what a 5.56 can't.
I've seen recent reports that the UK are even looking at options of returning to using the 7.62 in a new rifle design.
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Condi said:
The Bear first flew in 1952, and entered service in 1956. Its expected to remain in service until 2040, which is an active life of nearly 85 years. Are there any other bits of kit in recent times (ie not swords and shields!) which have been in service that long? Thats like using HMS Hood in a modern naval battle.
Browning M1911 automatics are still in use worldwide, and the design is supposed to date back before 1900. Even some US SWAT teams and FBI have now 'returned' to using various combat specials of the 1911.
Seems to be a trend after experience in over a decades war in the middle-east, as some US mil units sought to dig out old 7.62 M14 rifles as well, as the 7.62 does what a 5.56 can't.
I've seen recent reports that the UK are even looking at options of returning to using the 7.62 in a new rifle design.
ked things up completely...7.62 X 51 is a monster of a battlefield round, not too sure the yoof of today could get onto it without a lot more training...ps thanks for the 25 year update, yes I think your are right there...
Condi said:
The Bear first flew in 1952, and entered service in 1956. Its expected to remain in service until 2040, which is an active life of nearly 85 years. Are there any other bits of kit in recent times (ie not swords and shields!) which have been in service that long? Thats like using HMS Hood in a modern naval battle.
Paraguay still operate the US M3 Stuart light tank (1941) and the M4 Sherman (1942) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_Army#Armor...The Chilean Navy still operate a gun cruiser, the Almirante Grau (formally a Dutch cruiser) from 1941. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAP_Almirante_Grau_%2...
Brazil still operate a river gunboat from 1937, the Parnaíba - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_monitor_Par...
Greece still have the Armoured Cruiser Georgios Averof in active service (1910) but like Victory it's a floating museum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_cruiser_Georgio...
Then of course you have the special "still in service" ships that are in service in name only, the Italian Amerigo Vespucci (1931), the USA's USS Constitution (1797) and HMS Victory (1765)
Edited to add the Georgios Averoff above.
Mojocvh said:
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Condi said:
The Bear first flew in 1952, and entered service in 1956. Its expected to remain in service until 2040, which is an active life of nearly 85 years. Are there any other bits of kit in recent times (ie not swords and shields!) which have been in service that long? Thats like using HMS Hood in a modern naval battle.
Browning M1911 automatics are still in use worldwide, and the design is supposed to date back before 1900. Even some US SWAT teams and FBI have now 'returned' to using various combat specials of the 1911.
Seems to be a trend after experience in over a decades war in the middle-east, as some US mil units sought to dig out old 7.62 M14 rifles as well, as the 7.62 does what a 5.56 can't.
I've seen recent reports that the UK are even looking at options of returning to using the 7.62 in a new rifle design.
ked things up completely...7.62 X 51 is a monster of a battlefield round, not too sure the yoof of today could get onto it without a lot more training...ps thanks for the 25 year update, yes I think your are right there...
ecsrobin said:
Mojocvh said:
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Condi said:
The Bear first flew in 1952, and entered service in 1956. Its expected to remain in service until 2040, which is an active life of nearly 85 years. Are there any other bits of kit in recent times (ie not swords and shields!) which have been in service that long? Thats like using HMS Hood in a modern naval battle.
Browning M1911 automatics are still in use worldwide, and the design is supposed to date back before 1900. Even some US SWAT teams and FBI have now 'returned' to using various combat specials of the 1911.
Seems to be a trend after experience in over a decades war in the middle-east, as some US mil units sought to dig out old 7.62 M14 rifles as well, as the 7.62 does what a 5.56 can't.
I've seen recent reports that the UK are even looking at options of returning to using the 7.62 in a new rifle design.
ked things up completely...7.62 X 51 is a monster of a battlefield round, not too sure the yoof of today could get onto it without a lot more training...ps thanks for the 25 year update, yes I think your are right there...
+
short barrel and heavy 9.8 pounds vs 9.56 pounds, sound just like it's a sort of F-35 procurement fiasco...wonder what the effective individual range is?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Mojocvh said:
7.62 X 51 is a monster of a battlefield round, not too sure the yoof of today could get onto it without a lot more training...
Compared to Enfield .303, Mauser 7.92mm, or the Russian 7.62 x 54mm rounds, NATO 7.62 / Win .308 was/is a POS.Mojocvh said:
Wikki----The requirement was for a rifle to be able to fire standard NATO 7.62×51mm rounds, but 155 gr (10.0 g) sniping ammunition was found to be superior and is issued with the L129A1. Its 1:11.25 inch rifle twist was designed to fire 168 gr (10.9 g) match rounds, but the rifling prohibits it from accurately stabilizing 175 gr (11.3 g) sniping rounds
+
short barrel and heavy 9.8 pounds vs 9.56 pounds, sound just like it's a sort of F-35 procurement fiasco...wonder what the effective individual range is?
Well it's called the sharpshooter which gives a hint of range and issued to an individual in each squad. Effective range is around 800m+
short barrel and heavy 9.8 pounds vs 9.56 pounds, sound just like it's a sort of F-35 procurement fiasco...wonder what the effective individual range is?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
7.62 x 51 goes subsonic at around 900 yds.
While you can hit a man sized target at ranges beyond this, the windage and bullet drop effects are quite remarkable and no longer linear. Hence it is less than ideal for a sniper/sharpshooter type weapon.
The fact it's double the range of an SA80 I would say that it is a very good addition to a patrols range of weapons to utilise. While you can hit a man sized target at ranges beyond this, the windage and bullet drop effects are quite remarkable and no longer linear. Hence it is less than ideal for a sniper/sharpshooter type weapon.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
7.62 x 51 goes subsonic at around 900 yds.
While you can hit a man sized target at ranges beyond this, the windage and bullet drop effects are quite remarkable and no longer linear. Hence it is less than ideal for a sniper/sharpshooter type weapon.
If you revisit my post you'll read that I wrote battlefield to differentiate from your selection above. The L1A1 never was a sharpshooters weapon but section effective range was, if I remember correctly, 600m: individual 300m (depending on how clapped out they were)...I find it odd that there is a claim of 800m [on wiki] with a 3" shorter barrel...albeit specialised [but not the "optimal"] ammunition...While you can hit a man sized target at ranges beyond this, the windage and bullet drop effects are quite remarkable and no longer linear. Hence it is less than ideal for a sniper/sharpshooter type weapon.
ho hum I can only speak from experience however..
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