WWII battleship IJN Musashi found
Discussion
Paul Allen and his yacht Octopus have been busy. They have found Yamato's sister ship the Musashi that was sunk at the battle of Leyte Gulf during WWII.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31724995
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31724995
Hood was blown up by a lucky shell from Bismarck (that flashed through into the magazines).
I suppose the problem is that battleships were never really designed to withstand aerial attack - they had plenty of belt armour for protection against shellfire and torpedos but if you armour the deck enough to be bombproof, the ship will be top heavy.
I suppose the problem is that battleships were never really designed to withstand aerial attack - they had plenty of belt armour for protection against shellfire and torpedos but if you armour the deck enough to be bombproof, the ship will be top heavy.
Simpo Two said:
They were amazing ships. It still surprises me that a few relatively small bombs could sink them.
She took 20+ torpedo hits and numerous bombs. Yamato likewise was hit by at least a dozen torpedos before she tipped over. Compare that with HMS Repulse 5 torpedoes and you can see how well they where built, obsolete but the best of type ever built.Musashi took more damage from torpedoes before sinking partly due to it's main 16inch side belt armour being inclined 20 degrees, which effectively increased it's thickness (on top of the anti-torpedo protection). Yamato's was vertical. And the 3rd ship Shinano that was converted to an aircraft carrier and only had a 6inch armour belt was sunk by 4 torpedoes.
They built a partial full scale replica of the Yamato for the 2005 film "Otoko-tachi no Yamato" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92jF-XzAOFY
Movie set - http://mokehana.web.fc2.com/e-photo-yamatomovie-se...
Edited for better action video clip.
They built a partial full scale replica of the Yamato for the 2005 film "Otoko-tachi no Yamato" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92jF-XzAOFY
Movie set - http://mokehana.web.fc2.com/e-photo-yamatomovie-se...
Edited for better action video clip.
IanMorewood said:
Simpo Two said:
They were amazing ships. It still surprises me that a few relatively small bombs could sink them.
She took 20+ torpedo hits and numerous bombs. Yamato likewise was hit by at least a dozen torpedos before she tipped over. Compare that with HMS Repulse 5 torpedoes and you can see how well they where built, obsolete but the best of type ever built.Indeed she was a battle cruiser, point being she took more torpedoes than PoW or the others like Barham or Royal Oak (I know they took bigger torpedo hits as they where sunk by submarines).
Another comparison would have been with the raid on Taranto in which 12 torpedo armed stringbags put three Italian battleships out of action one for the remainder of the war, had they been in open sea then at least two would have been properly sunk.
Another comparison would have been with the raid on Taranto in which 12 torpedo armed stringbags put three Italian battleships out of action one for the remainder of the war, had they been in open sea then at least two would have been properly sunk.
HMS Repulse is hardly a fair comparison though - a old WW1 Battlecruiser, built before the lessons from Jutland were absorbed and applied to new construction. Even with the refits in the 20's and 30's she was never going to be a match for a modern battleship. Hood displayed the same weaknesses.
HMS Prince of Wales's rapid sinking is the more surprising, at least initially - a fairly modern ship, but built just as the British Government woke up to the fact that the rest of the world hadn't been bothering with the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty (or it's successor, the Treaty of London) for some time. Fitted with 14" guns when most new construction was using at least 15" (18" on the Yamatos), it was already outclassed. The proposed Lion class battleships would have gone some way to addressing the issues (being of comparable size and armament to Bismarck & Tirpitz, but the Japanese had already moved the battleship on, just as Dreadnought had forty years previously.
In any case, the last battleships built were outdated even before their keels were laid - as we all know, aircraft carriers were the future of naval warfare, a fact that was made blatantly obvious by events in Hawaii just weeks after the Repulse & Prince of Wales were sunk.
HMS Prince of Wales's rapid sinking is the more surprising, at least initially - a fairly modern ship, but built just as the British Government woke up to the fact that the rest of the world hadn't been bothering with the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty (or it's successor, the Treaty of London) for some time. Fitted with 14" guns when most new construction was using at least 15" (18" on the Yamatos), it was already outclassed. The proposed Lion class battleships would have gone some way to addressing the issues (being of comparable size and armament to Bismarck & Tirpitz, but the Japanese had already moved the battleship on, just as Dreadnought had forty years previously.
In any case, the last battleships built were outdated even before their keels were laid - as we all know, aircraft carriers were the future of naval warfare, a fact that was made blatantly obvious by events in Hawaii just weeks after the Repulse & Prince of Wales were sunk.
IanMorewood said:
Another comparison would have been with the raid on Taranto in which 12 torpedo armed stringbags put three Italian battleships out of action one for the remainder of the war, had they been in open sea then at least two would have been properly sunk.
And of course a stringbag disabled the Bismarck sufficiently to allow the Home Fleet to catch and destroy her.SWTH said:
IanMorewood said:
Another comparison would have been with the raid on Taranto in which 12 torpedo armed stringbags put three Italian battleships out of action one for the remainder of the war, had they been in open sea then at least two would have been properly sunk.
And of course a stringbag disabled the Bismarck sufficiently to allow the Home Fleet to catch and destroy her.SWTH said:
aircraft carriers were the future of naval warfare, a fact that was made blatantly obvious by events in Hawaii just weeks after the Repulse & Prince of Wales were sunk.
Ironically Taranto was the inspiration for Pearl Harbor. And whilst the latter caused much damage and loss, the ships under attack were moored up in harbour in peacetime - so hardly a fair fight or test of air vs sea.We can see now that air was going to win - but it may not have been so easy at the time.
irocfan said:
but now you're talking about being disabled rather than sunk
Italian battleships only saved by shallow water;Conte di Cavour
Littorio
Can't seem to find a picture of Caio Duilio ran aground but would be seriously down at the prow as she had a twenty foot hole near her front magazines.
Two bombs sank the Roma - and a new era was born
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-sin...
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-sin...
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