Germanwings Crash
Discussion
I see the rumours are circulating that the initial CVR download is suggesting loud cracks followed by crew initiating proceedures immediately followed by nothing thereafter.....and therefore suggestions being made of windscreen failure or similar event leading very quickly to crew incapacitation just after initiating decent etc.......
aeropilot said:
I see the rumours are circulating that the initial CVR download is suggesting loud cracks followed by crew initiating proceedures immediately followed by nothing thereafter.....and therefore suggestions being made of windscreen failure or similar event leading very quickly to crew incapacitation just after initiating decent etc.......
Circulating from where?jamiebae said:
I get the feeling this might turn into a huge issue for Lufthansa/GW and maybe even the wider industry. There are a lot of 20+ year old A320s with high hours and a lot of cycles out there. If they have to be grounded for a period of time or even replaced entirely there aren't the spare planes out there to replace them. As these GW planes have been recently refitted entirely they must have been planned to run for 5+ years more.
Shiny paint and news seats do not maketh the aircraft any newer than it is. There is a programme available from Airbus which will extend the current life of high hour A320's. I believe Lufthansa took advantage of it on some of their high hour aircraft but it has not been established if the aircraft that crashed had undergone the programme.As for pilots refusing to fly 'older' aircraft, that's utter tosh. It's purely something the media seem to be handing out to explain cancellations. I do know for a fact that some flights were cancelled because cabin crews were too upset to undertake their allocated rota as a result of the accident. A lot of them lost close friends and colleagues and I would defy anyone here to say they would have felt any different under the circumstances.
Agreed, I'm sure the 'refusing to fly' thing is media embellishment. I did find it surprising that the aircraft was 24 years old but the inside was all completely brand new so I assume the one I flew on had been through the 'life extension' programme prior to the refit.
It appears that GW have over 20 A320s which are over 22 years old on their fleet, and some of them have flown today so clearly they haven't grounded the whole fleet.
It appears that GW have over 20 A320s which are over 22 years old on their fleet, and some of them have flown today so clearly they haven't grounded the whole fleet.
My god, it's like a scrapyard: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/f...
Simpo Two said:
My god, it's like a scrapyard: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/f...
Don't think the AAIB will be gathering much aircraft configuration info from that lot! Poor people, and let's spare a thought for those tasked with cleaning it up...Good grief what a mess. Passengers and crew aside the metal looks like that Phantom that was used to test nuclear power station walls on a rocket sled.
It's a testament to the CVR casing that it was identifiably let alone readable.
My thoughts are with all involved, both victims and those in the aftermath.
It's a testament to the CVR casing that it was identifiably let alone readable.
My thoughts are with all involved, both victims and those in the aftermath.
Simpo Two said:
My god, it's like a scrapyard: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/f...
It's hard to get a clear idea of the landscape from the pictures but it's obviously precipitous; is the blackness from a fuel fire or is it naturally that colour?jamiebae said:
I understand that the pilots are refusing to fly the really old A320s until there's an indication of why this accident happened
Media hype. Some of the Germanwings crew did not feel up to flying following the sudden and shocking loss of their colleagues which is understandable. You probably don't want to be sat down the back with someone up the front who's mind isn't fully on the job either.I was surprised to learn that the timebase section of the recorder was destroyed, so whilst they have the voice data they don't know when it was said. This seems rather poor design to me - why not have the timebase part in the bombproof part?
And how about two of each recorder, so if one is damaged or lost there's a chance to find/use the other? Everything else in the a/c has a back-up.
Better still, live streaming data by satellite - proposed some time ago but not yet happening I think.
And how about two of each recorder, so if one is damaged or lost there's a chance to find/use the other? Everything else in the a/c has a back-up.
Better still, live streaming data by satellite - proposed some time ago but not yet happening I think.
Simpo Two said:
I was surprised to learn that the timebase section of the recorder was destroyed, so whilst they have the voice data they don't know when it was said. This seems rather poor design to me - why not have the timebase part in the bombproof part?
er, its effectively a voice recorder, you know when it stopped (when the unfortunate plane hit the mountain) and you know the recording rate (samples/sec) so you have a time base. The "time stamping" is external simply to limit the size of the memory units that need the most protection, those with the actual voice data on them. It takes 2mins in excel or MATLAB to re-generate the time base.Radio was just saying that the pilots were heard talking normally. The pilot then left the flightdeck then was heard knocking on the door to get back in gradually getting more frantic.
I thought the flightdeck doors had a coded latch on them. Or there have been on the aircraft I've flown on recently. Mostly being 777's.
I thought the flightdeck doors had a coded latch on them. Or there have been on the aircraft I've flown on recently. Mostly being 777's.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
V8 Fettler said:
Bizarre reports in the media this morning regarding a pilot being locked out of the cabin. How many flight deck crew do these things have?
er, 2. Which is an answer im sure you already know.adsvx220 said:
Radio was just saying that the pilots were heard talking normally. The pilot then left the flightdeck then was heard knocking on the door to get back in gradually getting more frantic.
I thought the flightdeck doors had a coded latch on them. Or there have been on the aircraft I've flown on recently. Mostly being 777's.
According to the youtube link below there is an override code/procedure to gain access to the flight deck if the flight crew do not respond to requests for access.I thought the flightdeck doors had a coded latch on them. Or there have been on the aircraft I've flown on recently. Mostly being 777's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs.
Link from flight radar24 tweeter feed. No idea if this system was actually fitted to this plane.
Edited by Russ35 on Thursday 26th March 09:52
kapiteinlangzaam said:
V8 Fettler said:
Bizarre reports in the media this morning regarding a pilot being locked out of the cabin. How many flight deck crew do these things have?
er, 2. Which is an answer im sure you already know.Max_Torque said:
er, its effectively a voice recorder, you know when it stopped (when the unfortunate plane hit the mountain) and you know the recording rate (samples/sec) so you have a time base. The "time stamping" is external simply to limit the size of the memory units that need the most protection, those with the actual voice data on them. It takes 2mins in excel or MATLAB to re-generate the time base.
Just saying what they said on the TV.So, all a rogue pilot has to do is wait until his colleague goes to the toilet, then lock the door and fly it into the ground (or saunter off over the Southern Ocean of course). Same applies if the sole pilot is disabled in some way.
The locking door was introduced as a result of anti-terrorist measures; ironically this time it seems to achieved much the same as what it was designed to prevent. There needs to be a way to get in.
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 26th March 11:39
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff