NPPL

[ben_h100]

Hi all,

I'm wondering how many people here hold/have held a NPPL, and what you do/did/went on to do with it.

I'm going to learn to fly in the next few months and am looking for inspiration for when I finally achieve that license.

[eharding]

ben_h100 said:

Hi all,

I'm wondering how many people here hold/have held a NPPL, and what you do/did/went on to do with it.

I'm going to learn to fly in the next few months and am looking for inspiration for when I finally achieve that license.

I started out with an NPPL 12 years ago, then got a JAR-PPL and an IMC, let the IMC lapse, got shares in a Yak and Pitts, flew competition aerobatics, won a few pots and gongs, got a Display Authorisation, was taught close formation by RAF instructors, made the best friends I have in the process, and sadly lost some to accidents and illness along the way.

Still have a share in the Yak, haven't flown it in months - the last time was as a part of a missing man formation, something I've done far too much of over the years - but the weather's getting better, the Yak should soon be back from maintenance prison, and the annual radial hoon to Scotland beckons.

Different folk get satisfaction and enjoyment from all aspects of aviation - go anywhere in the worst murk IFR types, bimbling about farm-stripping in a Cub characters or put the stick in one corner, the rudder in the other and see what happens merchants. You can't do the former on an NPPL, but you most certainly can do the other two. Suggest you try both. Just make sure you're in something suitable, and with a responsible adult, before you try the stick/rudder/corner stuff.

Edited by eharding on Sunday 29th March 22:17

[Simpo Two]

eharding said:

or put the stick in one corner, the rudder in the other and see what happens merchants

That sounds like the one where it looks like they've flown into an invisible wall...

[eharding]

Simpo Two said:

eharding said:

or put the stick in one corner, the rudder in the other and see what happens merchants

That sounds like the one where it looks like they've flown into an invisible wall...

Tumbling is best conducted at low airspeeds, around or below the 1g level stall airspeed, unless you want your head to start removing parts of the cockpit furniture and canopy.

I remember the first time I tried a 'Cravat' in the Pitts - as recommended by a couple of co-owners. It's a 'Ruade' tumble off a vertical line - basically going arse over tit up the sky.

So there I was, somewhere north-west of Reading, pull vertical, airspeed decays, trying to remember the whole Xavier de L'Apparent thing, get it going round nicely, and then the engine coughs, and the Christen inverted system dumps an arse-load of oil into the breather, which in those days fed directly into the exhaust splitter.. Result: going arse-over-tit up the sky, in a cockpit completely full of choking oil smoke - the two seconds that followed was the only time (thus far, hopefully ever) I genuinely thought I was going to have to bin it and step over the side.

Went back to Waltham, co-owners who recommended said tumble suitably amused as they knew *exactly* what was going to happen. Was the first, but not the last time I experienced MAXG's built in smoke system. After I sold out, they moved the breather so that it drips on the right brake - think I prefer the smoke!

[Penguinracer]

Any particular reason you sold out of the Pitts & went into the Yak?

Was it a people or an aircraft decision?

[eharding]

Penguinracer said:

Any particular reason you sold out of the Pitts & went into the Yak?

Was it a people or an aircraft decision?

I had the share in the Yak before the Pitts, so was running shares in both of them for about 5 years - had to make a decision between the two.

We lost a year of competition in the Pitts after one of my mates - he's still a mate - stoofed it into the runway at Elvington, and it had to be rebuilt (he went on to win the Intermediate championship that year in the shiny new Extra 300L he'd bought, but that's ancient history) - by the time I got back to flying competitions I was finishing nowhere, and as a result of too many pies the most stressful part of operating the thing wasn't landing it, but getting in and out of it.

The Yak's a far more sociable aeroplane, but flying competitions in it is like entering the Caterham Challenge in a Range Rover (particularly at Intermediate) - compared to the sheer delight of flying the Pitts. I once tried flying the Yak in the Sparco racing boots I used in the Pitts, and came back having bruised the soles of my feet - quite happy to fly the Yak in hiking boots though!

[Penguinracer]

Not wanting to derail the OP's thread any further - the comparison between the Yak & the Pitts is interesting.
From a purely pragmatic point of view I suppose the Yak is a tough old bird which can happily be left outside & is therfore better suited to the odd cross-country whereas I imagine it's pretty unfair on the Pitts to leave it outside overnight if it can possibly be avoided.

Have you flown any of the newer generation aerobatic aircraft such as the Extra/Sbach/Edge etc - I was wondering how they compared to the Pitts for flying qualities & enjoyment?
Tim

[eharding]

Penguinracer said:

Have you flown any of the newer generation aerobatic aircraft such as the Extra/Sbach/Edge etc - I was wondering how they compared to the Pitts for flying qualities & enjoyment?
Tim

I did get checked out on the ex-Lecomber mid-wing Extra 300 that a some of the Pitts group bought as they moved up to Advanced competitions, rented it a few times and ferried it about - certainly a big performance hike over the S1, but at £300/hr block vs the £65/hr airborne/wet to fly the Pitts I wasn't going to see the benefit of the additional performance (keeping it in the box was a challenge). The mid-wing, whilst being arguably a purer design than the later low-wing, is also an absolute sod to taxy and in the three-point attitude on the final round-out, because you can't see much over the wing - weaving the nose when you taxy doesn't help much, as witnessed by that particular airframe's encounter with a fuel bowser last year (one of a series of AAIB bulletins - I was sat in the front of it as part of another one, when the gear collapsed on landing). I never really felt comfortable in the Extra - always felt like you were sitting on it, rather than in it, and the throttle/mixture/prop control positioning required four baboon-length arms when starting as opposed to the three normal length ones preferred when starting the Pitts. I think they sorted most of the ergonomics in the 300L though.

After the EA300 came the Sbach / Xtreme 342, run by ex-owners of the Extra - I've only flown it from the front seat (including a blast with Philip Steinbach when he first bought the demonstrator for a visit). The thing is phenomenal, makes the Extra feel like an old cart-horse, but the same huge control authority which enables the amazing low-speed handling - look for some video of Philip's displays - means it can have a distinctly brutal side - certainly took the local owners a while to get to grips with them.

[hidetheelephants]

Missing man formation? Do you mean a search pattern?

[eharding]

hidetheelephants said:

Missing man formation? Do you mean a search pattern?

Flypast at a friend's funeral - one of the founders of the Yak group. Second one in a fortnight.

[Penguinracer]

Thank you for your posting.
The Sbach always struck me as the ultimate - with its Va=Vne.
I suppose there's always the mission-dependent conundrum: Are you better to invest in a Tourer & have a share in an aerobatic a/c or are you better to own an aerobatic a/c & hire a tourer?

It strikes me that private recreational flying seems to be in global decline for many reasons (less people interested in learing to fly, increased cost, more red-tape & in Europe increased GA-unfriendly regulation).
Tim

[Dr Jekyll]

Penguinracer said:

Thank you for your posting.
The Sbach always struck me as the ultimate - with its Va=Vne.
I suppose there's always the mission-dependent conundrum: Are you better to invest in a Tourer & have a share in an aerobatic a/c or are you better to own an aerobatic a/c & hire a tourer?

Interesting one.
The problem with hiring a tourer is that the clubs don't like you taking the aircraft away for days on end and can get upset if you are stuck somewhere due to bad weather on the day you're supposed to return it. Tourers tend to be expensive though, I've always thought a realistic aspiration is to own a cheap aerobatic aircraft for sunny evenings and keeping in regular flying practice, then hire a Bonanza or something when you want to take some friends to France.

[Penguinracer]

...I think I've come to the same conclusion.

Much like boats - to really use a tourer (i.e. Bonanza A36) you not only need plenty of money but also plenty of time.
Most people tend to have a bit of one or the other.

[hidetheelephants]

eharding said:

hidetheelephants said:

Missing man formation? Do you mean a search pattern?

Flypast at a friend's funeral - one of the founders of the Yak group. Second one in a fortnight.

I like the sound of aircraft you can fly while wearing clompy boots! Very tractor-like.

[LimaDelta]

Dr Jekyll said:

Penguinracer said:

Thank you for your posting.
The Sbach always struck me as the ultimate - with its Va=Vne.
I suppose there's always the mission-dependent conundrum: Are you better to invest in a Tourer & have a share in an aerobatic a/c or are you better to own an aerobatic a/c & hire a tourer?

Interesting one.
The problem with hiring a tourer is that the clubs don't like you taking the aircraft away for days on end and can get upset if you are stuck somewhere due to bad weather on the day you're supposed to return it. Tourers tend to be expensive though, I've always thought a realistic aspiration is to own a cheap aerobatic aircraft for sunny evenings and keeping in regular flying practice, then hire a Bonanza or something when you want to take some friends to France.

Or best of both worlds (kind of) - Build (or buy) an RV-8

Gentleman's aeros, plenty of luggage space, decent range/endurance.

[subirg]

Back on topic - I started training for the NPPL then switched to the LAPL instead. Similar medical requirements (which was a necessary consideration for me). The LAPL is a vastly superior license but takes similar training time and cost to achieve vs the NPPL. Key reasons are that it is a European license (not limited to UK), you can fly VFR on top of cloud, and it is mildly upgradable (you can add night, mountain and aerobatic ratings). The NPPL by contrast is much more limited and is essentially being superseded by the LAPL.

I got my license last summer. Since then I have learnt to fly a PA-28 (did all training in a Cessna 152), got a share in a locally based plane, and have spent my time refining my basic handling and nav skills. Lately I have started taking passengers and venturing further afield from my base (Barton). Land aways are fun - visiting other airfields and places I wouldn't otherwise get to. I expect to do quite a few do those those year all within the UK. Looking to the future, I'd like to do some longer trips - initially to places like Cornwall and up to Scotland, then over to Europe (France and Switzerland are high on my list). I'd like to add aero and night ratings at some point too. It would be great to get an RV7 some time - that looks like the perfect plane for what I can imagine doing in future.

I can't see myself running out of things to do for many many years!

[eharding]

subirg said:

Back on topic - I started training for the NPPL then switched to the LAPL instead. Similar medical requirements (which was a necessary consideration for me). The LAPL is a vastly superior license but takes similar training time and cost to achieve vs the NPPL. Key reasons are that it is a European license (not limited to UK), you can fly VFR on top of cloud, and it is mildly upgradable (you can add night, mountain and aerobatic ratings). The NPPL by contrast is much more limited and is essentially being superseded by the LAPL.

Certainly the non-EASA restriction on the NPPL after next week as probably killed off any scope for commercial NPPL-SSEA training.

hidetheelephants said:

I like the sound of aircraft you can fly while wearing clompy boots! Very tractor-like.

The Yak-52 is genuinely known as the 'Tractor'. On the plus side, 52's don't tend to get hangar-rash - the causes of hangar-rash to less robust types generally come off the worse for wear after an encounter with the Tractor.

Penguinracer said:

The Sbach always struck me as the ultimate - with its Va=Vne.

I suppose there's always the mission-dependent conundrum: Are you better to invest in a Tourer & have a share in an aerobatic a/c or are you better to own an aerobatic a/c & hire a tourer?

I think there are so many variables involved in the own/share/hire question that there isn't a one-size fits all best answer - with the caveat that, as you know, most of the best aerobatic types aren't available for hire anyway.

As it happens, my back-seater for the upcoming Scotland radial bash has booked out his SBach 342 as a backup in case the Yak goes tech - which would have the advantage of not being constantly worrying about fuel, and shut the Nanchang drivers up about us not being able to keep up!