Why are there not more flying boats?
Discussion
You think with many major airports running at capacity and landing taxes being so high, and budget airlines looking to cut costs everywhere, that cutting out the airport entirely might be a canny idea?
thames estuary > southern european coast direct, parking 10 mins from the hotel sounds like a winner for holiday season no?
Not many people building seaplanes these days but the russion be-200 has a range of 1300 miles and seats 72 so the concepts sound, whats the reason no-ones cottoned on?
Are seaplanes too expensive to operate compared to the hard worked busses that make up most airlines that negates the taxes? Or concerns regarding controlling the movement of people, something difficult enough with static ports & airports but once you have seaplanes buzzing about the place who controls who's coming and going?
I guess weathers the biggest drawback, and a plane that can only be used seasonally loses out economically to ground based a/c.
thames estuary > southern european coast direct, parking 10 mins from the hotel sounds like a winner for holiday season no?
Not many people building seaplanes these days but the russion be-200 has a range of 1300 miles and seats 72 so the concepts sound, whats the reason no-ones cottoned on?
Are seaplanes too expensive to operate compared to the hard worked busses that make up most airlines that negates the taxes? Or concerns regarding controlling the movement of people, something difficult enough with static ports & airports but once you have seaplanes buzzing about the place who controls who's coming and going?
I guess weathers the biggest drawback, and a plane that can only be used seasonally loses out economically to ground based a/c.
The Russians still love their flying boats, as above these http://www.airvectors.net/avbe200.html
This is their design for something really big - http://www.beriev.com/eng/Be-2500_e/Be-2500_e.html
I think too much water traffic around here is likely the biggest problem in the UK these days. Finding suitable clear water for landing near a good location at the right time. And the cost vs normal aircraft. In Russia they get used because it's probably cheaper than building an airfield that's only used a few times.
This is their design for something really big - http://www.beriev.com/eng/Be-2500_e/Be-2500_e.html
I think too much water traffic around here is likely the biggest problem in the UK these days. Finding suitable clear water for landing near a good location at the right time. And the cost vs normal aircraft. In Russia they get used because it's probably cheaper than building an airfield that's only used a few times.
Boatbuoy said:
In an age of economy, think of all the additional engineering requirements (weight and structure stuff) to land on water, not to mention potential corrosion issues associated with salt.
In the age of composite materials, imagine how much less maintenance you'd need not having to worry about corrosion, landing gear, tyres, brakes, tarmac...Even with a 100% composite airframe the engines still have rapidocorrode(TM) alloys inside that evaporate on contact with brine. ETA If someone is planning on knocking out some plastic amphibs, I'll have a Grumman Goose lookylikey please.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Thursday 23 April 07:24
Flying boat empty weights are higher, their drag coefficients (if using stepped hulls) are much higher and consequently for the same power they flying slower burning much more fuel.
Loading passengers on to a flying boat is not going to be any faster than loading them on land. Also they're rather difficult to handle on the water compared to land planes so you probably wouldn't have a terminal on water and expect the plane to reverse away from it. It would also complicate loading the catering and baggage.
Lastly the sea state that a waterborne aircraft can operate from is a function of the aircraft's weight, which is why smaller flying boats are pretty much extinct and all the really successful ones were the very large ones. It's rough, and passengers don't like rough.
Loading passengers on to a flying boat is not going to be any faster than loading them on land. Also they're rather difficult to handle on the water compared to land planes so you probably wouldn't have a terminal on water and expect the plane to reverse away from it. It would also complicate loading the catering and baggage.
Lastly the sea state that a waterborne aircraft can operate from is a function of the aircraft's weight, which is why smaller flying boats are pretty much extinct and all the really successful ones were the very large ones. It's rough, and passengers don't like rough.
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Thursday 23 April 06:12
jamieduff1981 said:
Lastly the sea state that a waterborne aircraft can operate from is a function of the aircraft's weight, which is why smaller flying boats are pretty much extinct and all the really successful ones were the very large ones. It's rough, and passengers don't like rough.
For some of us rough equals fun 
but yes otherwise you're right. My ex-missus was very much unimpressed at the rough water take-off/landing in marginal sea state when we were in Fiji and getting out to one of the remote small out lying islands which was only accessible via sea-plane etc. or a long boat trip...
Short Sunderland. Apparently there was one still flying in the UK in the 1990s.
https://vimeo.com/3560160
https://vimeo.com/3560160
V8 Fettler said:
Short Sunderland. Apparently there was one still flying in the UK in the 1990s.
https://vimeo.com/3560160
Owned by Ed Hulton at the time IIRC, and a Sandringham converted by Ansett from an ex-RNZAF Mk.V, and bought by Kermit Weeks and ferried across to the USA, for display at his Fantasy of Flight facility in Florida. Hasn't been flown now for over 20 years.https://vimeo.com/3560160
The last two flying Sunderland/Sandringhams were two ex Ansett machines which had been bought by Captain Charles Blair's airline Antilles Air Boats and which operated out of the US Virgin Islands.
In the summers of 1976 and 1977 he brought on of these magnificent beasts (VP-LVE) to Ireland and Britain to operate a few weeks of pleasure flights out of Killalloo in Co. Clare and from the Solent. I was lucky enough him to see him perform a flypast of Dublin Airport control tower in 1977 when a planned landing at Dun Laoghaire Harbour was cancelled due to choppy waters. Instead, he requested a fly over of Dublin and then a low level flypast over the airport. It was a magnificent sight.
In the summers of 1976 and 1977 he brought on of these magnificent beasts (VP-LVE) to Ireland and Britain to operate a few weeks of pleasure flights out of Killalloo in Co. Clare and from the Solent. I was lucky enough him to see him perform a flypast of Dublin Airport control tower in 1977 when a planned landing at Dun Laoghaire Harbour was cancelled due to choppy waters. Instead, he requested a fly over of Dublin and then a low level flypast over the airport. It was a magnificent sight.
That reminds me about 15-20 years ago Southampton held a festival called sea wings, me and my father went along and you stood on the beach at Newley abbey and they had a whole host of seaplanes from around the world landing, taking off and displaying.
There was also a harrier, tornado and a big formation of tiger moths or sopwith camels IIRC
There was also a harrier, tornado and a big formation of tiger moths or sopwith camels IIRC
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