How much do commercial aircraft cost to run per hour?
Discussion
You often hear that various aircraft cost £x per hour and require £x hours maintenance to keep running, are commercial aircraft on a more economic scale or do they cost a fortune and take many hours of maintenance to keep them going?
I'm assuming that whilst they of course extremely technical it's not on the same level as say an F35 so the hourly cost to run would be more reasonable?
I'm assuming that whilst they of course extremely technical it's not on the same level as say an F35 so the hourly cost to run would be more reasonable?
Eric Mc said:
I'm sure it varies enormously depending on the aircraft involved - its age - and the way it is operated.
I guess it does Eric 
However take say an A380 that flies 2/3rds full each flight that's quite a lot of revenue, but that's gross cost so the amount left to actually run the aircraft may well be a low % of total revenue.
Aside from fuel I can't see these buses take a huge amount of money to keep running. Watch next time the co-pilot dies his walk around, that appears to be the total sum of maintenance over say a 10 hour return flight.
HoHoHo said:
Eric Mc said:
I'm sure it varies enormously depending on the aircraft involved - its age - and the way it is operated.
I guess it does Eric However take say an A380 that flies 2/3rds full each flight that's quite a lot of revenue, but that's gross cost so the amount left to actually run the aircraft may well be a low % of total revenue.
Aside from fuel I can't see these buses take a huge amount of money to keep running. Watch next time the co-pilot dies his walk around, that appears to be the total sum of maintenance over say a 10 hour return flight.
HoHoHo said:
You often hear that various aircraft cost £x per hour and require £x hours maintenance to keep running, are commercial aircraft on a more economic scale or do they cost a fortune and take many hours of maintenance to keep them going?
I'm assuming that whilst they of course extremely technical it's not on the same level as say an F35 so the hourly cost to run would be more reasonable?
The problem with the quoted costs for military aircraft is that they are often calculated by adding up the entire costs of operating them, fuel, spares, training staff, equipping hangars, feeding the guard dogs etc etc and dividing by flying hours. This is why a few years back we were quoted costs of £35,000 an hour for a Tornado and £70,000 for a Typhoon, the difference was simply that fewer Typhoons were flying.I'm assuming that whilst they of course extremely technical it's not on the same level as say an F35 so the hourly cost to run would be more reasonable?
The cost in fuel and maintenance of doing an 'extra' hour is a fraction of that.
This website has some interesting stuff for civil aircraft
http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/654/wh...
The cost of parts makes your eyes water! The microwave on ours (business jet) keeps breaking and I'm told is in the region of $15,000 to replace each time. Don't forget aircraft depreciate like cars do as well and I'm sure that has to factor into the hourly running costs somehow as well.
I suppose when you think about it, one of my clients and a chap I track cars with is an aircraft spare parts business owner.
He's just taken delivery of a 918, his LaFerrari is delivered next month and those only add to his already very expensive and rare collection of metal.
Maybe I should offer my Miele Microwave out of my kitchen for £12000 and save therm some money
I'm clearly in the wrong game
He's just taken delivery of a 918, his LaFerrari is delivered next month and those only add to his already very expensive and rare collection of metal.
Maybe I should offer my Miele Microwave out of my kitchen for £12000 and save therm some money
I'm clearly in the wrong game
Supernova190188 said:
As in an actual microwave for cooking food? For $15,000? Jesus!
My company make equipment to go on aircraft. Anything that goes on board has to undergo testing to ensure its safe/won't cause problems and so on. This bumps up costs dramatically.A piece of kit recently failed because the screws that hold it in to a rack are 5mm too long. 20p for a few screws, thousands to update documents, drawings and all the other paperwork and then get a retest done.
The screw ends are encased in the racking, they will not stick out or anything like that, its just "the rules".
For one of our aircraft to transit UK airspace on its way over the pond its roughly $16,000. That's entering via stavanger or Maastricht so we're not even talking about covering all the airspace.
I've no idea how airlines make money, the margins are so thin. They certainly don't pass any of it to its employees.
I've no idea how airlines make money, the margins are so thin. They certainly don't pass any of it to its employees.
HoHoHo said:
I guess it does Eric
However take say an A380 that flies 2/3rds full each flight that's quite a lot of revenue, but that's gross cost so the amount left to actually run the aircraft may well be a low % of total revenue.
Aside from fuel I can't see these buses take a huge amount of money to keep running. Watch next time the co-pilot dies his walk around, that appears to be the total sum of maintenance over say a 10 hour return flight.
The A380 can carry 310,000 litres of fuel. Not sure what jet fuel costs, say £0.60/litre, that's £186,000 in fuel divided by a 10 hour flight is £18,600/hr in fuel. They may or may not use the whole load of fuel and it may be more or less expensive, but it's a start. Fuel is probably half of the total operating cost, with the lease, maintenance, insurance, wages etc making up the rest. However take say an A380 that flies 2/3rds full each flight that's quite a lot of revenue, but that's gross cost so the amount left to actually run the aircraft may well be a low % of total revenue.
Aside from fuel I can't see these buses take a huge amount of money to keep running. Watch next time the co-pilot dies his walk around, that appears to be the total sum of maintenance over say a 10 hour return flight.
When the driver walks round it and kicks the tyres, he's not going to be giving it a full inspection, he'll be just giving it the once over to see the general condition of the machine. There will be armies of people looking after them and mountains of paper work recording what's been done.
Not sure of fuel costs, but I know that sometimes the Airlines hedge on fuel. For example, just before the oil price plummeted I am told that Delta did a 3 year deal for fuel supply. Ouch.
Austin Digital (http://www.ausdig.com/, now owned by GE) take data recorded on aircraft and analyse it to help the airlines fly the aircraft as efficiently as possible. I've seen analysis of a few thousand landings at a given airport, by looking at the data and doing comparisons they came up with a fuel saving of a few percent over the approach, landing and taxi at this particular airport. Will save an airline a huge amount.
With regards to maintenance - The pilot having a walk round is definitely not the total sum of all maintenance that goes on, in fact there is an awful lot that goes on. This area is a big deal right now with regards to data analysis and prognostics - essentially looking at the data and detecting problems before they cause a swap, delay etc.
In one case I've seen a fault with an aircon pack that actually caused an emergency descent and aborted trip could have been picked up a month before and taken care of during normal maintenance. As it was it caused passengers to be booked on other flights, hotels rooms, displaced crew (and aircraft) - all lots of money.
Data is also being used to negate risks. GE sell aircraft engines - the engines themselves are not that profitable, the profit comes from service contracts that go with the engine, basically its a bit of a gamble that over 10 or 15 years the engine will cost less to maintain than the airline pay for the contract. So, lets say we have a small fleet of 5000 engines - a common theme, design fault starts to be apparent. How many of the engines will suffer this issue ? how soon ? which ones are most at risk ?
If something can be done during routine maintenance its far cheaper than the engine having a problem and having to go for a overhaul - time on wing is paramount. If the data can tell you these questions it negates risk, keeps aircraft in the air and so on.
Commercial aviation is a tough place to make money.
Austin Digital (http://www.ausdig.com/, now owned by GE) take data recorded on aircraft and analyse it to help the airlines fly the aircraft as efficiently as possible. I've seen analysis of a few thousand landings at a given airport, by looking at the data and doing comparisons they came up with a fuel saving of a few percent over the approach, landing and taxi at this particular airport. Will save an airline a huge amount.
With regards to maintenance - The pilot having a walk round is definitely not the total sum of all maintenance that goes on, in fact there is an awful lot that goes on. This area is a big deal right now with regards to data analysis and prognostics - essentially looking at the data and detecting problems before they cause a swap, delay etc.
In one case I've seen a fault with an aircon pack that actually caused an emergency descent and aborted trip could have been picked up a month before and taken care of during normal maintenance. As it was it caused passengers to be booked on other flights, hotels rooms, displaced crew (and aircraft) - all lots of money.
Data is also being used to negate risks. GE sell aircraft engines - the engines themselves are not that profitable, the profit comes from service contracts that go with the engine, basically its a bit of a gamble that over 10 or 15 years the engine will cost less to maintain than the airline pay for the contract. So, lets say we have a small fleet of 5000 engines - a common theme, design fault starts to be apparent. How many of the engines will suffer this issue ? how soon ? which ones are most at risk ?
If something can be done during routine maintenance its far cheaper than the engine having a problem and having to go for a overhaul - time on wing is paramount. If the data can tell you these questions it negates risk, keeps aircraft in the air and so on.
Commercial aviation is a tough place to make money.
Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 24th May 11:52
HoHoHo said:
I suppose when you think about it, one of my clients and a chap I track cars with is an aircraft spare parts business owner.
He's just taken delivery of a 918, his LaFerrari is delivered next month and those only add to his already very expensive and rare collection of metal.
Maybe I should offer my Miele Microwave out of my kitchen for £12000 and save therm some money
I'm clearly in the wrong game
Can't be too many who fit that description so I presume the same chap who had/has a customised Zonda too?He's just taken delivery of a 918, his LaFerrari is delivered next month and those only add to his already very expensive and rare collection of metal.
Maybe I should offer my Miele Microwave out of my kitchen for £12000 and save therm some money
I'm clearly in the wrong game
Willy Nilly said:
The A380 can carry 310,000 litres of fuel. Not sure what jet fuel costs, say £0.60/litre, that's £186,000 in fuel divided by a 10 hour flight is £18,600/hr in fuel. They may or may not use the whole load of fuel and it may be more or less expensive, but it's a start. Fuel is probably half of the total operating cost, with the lease, maintenance, insurance, wages etc making up the rest.
When the driver walks round it and kicks the tyres, he's not going to be giving it a full inspection, he'll be just giving it the once over to see the general condition of the machine. There will be armies of people looking after them and mountains of paper work recording what's been done.
For info, it's currently about half that.When the driver walks round it and kicks the tyres, he's not going to be giving it a full inspection, he'll be just giving it the once over to see the general condition of the machine. There will be armies of people looking after them and mountains of paper work recording what's been done.
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