Aircraft down at Blackbushe?
Discussion
The runways gash for Phenom scale ops yes. They should pay a little more and go up the road to Farnborough and pay TAG.
RAF fighter pilots are extensively medical screened then tested routinely in considerable depth and then retired by 40 from Ops. Some Jordanian guy in his mid 50's whose cousin is his AME flying who knows what flight rosters is - once again - a completely different thing.
And yes, anything larger than Beechcraft should be two pilot in my opinion.
RAF fighter pilots are extensively medical screened then tested routinely in considerable depth and then retired by 40 from Ops. Some Jordanian guy in his mid 50's whose cousin is his AME flying who knows what flight rosters is - once again - a completely different thing.
And yes, anything larger than Beechcraft should be two pilot in my opinion.
converted lurker said:
The runways gash for Phenom scale ops yes. They should pay a little more and go up the road to Farnborough and pay TAG.
RAF fighter pilots are extensively medical screened then tested routinely in considerable depth and then retired by 40 from Ops. Some Jordanian guy in his mid 50's whose cousin is his AME flying who knows what flight rosters is - once again - a completely different thing.
And yes, anything larger than Beechcraft should be two pilot in my opinion.
A hidden motive I see you work for TAG don't you. RAF fighter pilots are extensively medical screened then tested routinely in considerable depth and then retired by 40 from Ops. Some Jordanian guy in his mid 50's whose cousin is his AME flying who knows what flight rosters is - once again - a completely different thing.
And yes, anything larger than Beechcraft should be two pilot in my opinion.
Dr Jekyll said:
There are eye witnesses who reckon the Phenom touched down around 2/3 of the way down the runway at a vastly excessive speed. If so a few hundred metres of runway length are neither here nor there.
I have zero flying experience (model aircraft and various simulators excluded 
)Firstly it's terribly sad four poeple lost their lives.
If it's true he touched down 2/3rds of the way down the runway what was going through his mind at the time, surely you are trained (to put it simply) to approach and land at a certain angle and speed, touching the runway at a given point (or thereabouts), if there's any doubt open the taps, go around and try again.
I was on an Easyjet flight a year or two ago and we had two failed attempts at landing. Once we were at our alternative airport and on the ground the Captain told me it was because it was very windy and his approach was 15 knots faster than allowed and whilst he felt the aircraft would be OK and he could get it into Gatwick he had to fly by the rules.
Without wishing to start an argument, is it simply one man isn't capable of handing such a complex aircraft, there's a lot going on, all happening really quickly and he simply misjudged it and got it wrong?
HoHoHo said:
I have zero flying experience (model aircraft and various simulators excluded )
Firstly it's terribly sad four poeple lost their lives.
If it's true he touched down 2/3rds of the way down the runway what was going through his mind at the time, surely you are trained (to put it simply) to approach and land at a certain angle and speed, touching the runway at a given point (or thereabouts), if there's any doubt open the taps, go around and try again.
I was on an Easyjet flight a year or two ago and we had two failed attempts at landing. Once we were at our alternative airport and on the ground the Captain told me it was because it was very windy and his approach was 15 knots faster than allowed and whilst he felt the aircraft would be OK and he could get it into Gatwick he had to fly by the rules.
Without wishing to start an argument, is it simply one man isn't capable of handing such a complex aircraft, there's a lot going on, all happening really quickly and he simply misjudged it and got it wrong?
On the face of it there were two misjudgements. First of all approaching too high and too fast which could happen to anyone on an off day and is a tricky combination to deal with, and secondly, as you say, not going around for another go. Which is very difficult to explain. )Firstly it's terribly sad four poeple lost their lives.
If it's true he touched down 2/3rds of the way down the runway what was going through his mind at the time, surely you are trained (to put it simply) to approach and land at a certain angle and speed, touching the runway at a given point (or thereabouts), if there's any doubt open the taps, go around and try again.
I was on an Easyjet flight a year or two ago and we had two failed attempts at landing. Once we were at our alternative airport and on the ground the Captain told me it was because it was very windy and his approach was 15 knots faster than allowed and whilst he felt the aircraft would be OK and he could get it into Gatwick he had to fly by the rules.
Without wishing to start an argument, is it simply one man isn't capable of handing such a complex aircraft, there's a lot going on, all happening really quickly and he simply misjudged it and got it wrong?
I don't think it's a case of the aircraft being too complex for one person. After all the main reason for having two pilots on airliners is that one can land it if the other is taken ill.
Dr Jekyll said:
There are eye witnesses who reckon the Phenom touched down around 2/3 of the way down the runway at a vastly excessive speed. If so a few hundred metres of runway length are neither here nor there.
Which is why I tend to think that there could be something in the "taken ill" theory, under normal circumstances, he could have gone around, but if he was having some kind of medical episode, a) he would want to get down as quickly as possible, and b) would not be thinking rationally. Guys you don't understand. The other pilot is there for much more than the very tiny numbers of times a pilot dies at the controls. Every single day all around the world the other pilot in commercial ops is there to tell his colleague to stop doing that/reconsider this/I'm not happy with this/this is going wrong/go around/I have control going around.
What happens when you're flying is that you can get very goal focussed. Some describe it as the red mist. You can land on this runways, this approach will be alright, we are not going to fast, I can make this....
That's why single pilot ops are dangerous in high performance aircraft. It's essentially a ten ton kinetic weapon guided by someone who is not making rational judgements. If there were two professional pilots on that flightdeck the other one would have been telling Ahmed to bloody well go around as they merrily sailed over the threshold following Ahmeds fairly gash circuit.
The other pilot is your mother in law. How do you drive with your mother in law in the passenger seat compared to when you are alone? Exactly, now you've got it. Except this mother in law works as a driver instructor.
When I'm a billionaire I will insist that my private jet operation has two crews and uses runways with 1.6 times the length available that is required to land in the manual written by the company test pilot on a nice day. That way I will survive instead of being one of the many many bizjet fireballs that we have witnessed over the years.
What happens when you're flying is that you can get very goal focussed. Some describe it as the red mist. You can land on this runways, this approach will be alright, we are not going to fast, I can make this....
That's why single pilot ops are dangerous in high performance aircraft. It's essentially a ten ton kinetic weapon guided by someone who is not making rational judgements. If there were two professional pilots on that flightdeck the other one would have been telling Ahmed to bloody well go around as they merrily sailed over the threshold following Ahmeds fairly gash circuit.
The other pilot is your mother in law. How do you drive with your mother in law in the passenger seat compared to when you are alone? Exactly, now you've got it. Except this mother in law works as a driver instructor.
When I'm a billionaire I will insist that my private jet operation has two crews and uses runways with 1.6 times the length available that is required to land in the manual written by the company test pilot on a nice day. That way I will survive instead of being one of the many many bizjet fireballs that we have witnessed over the years.
ecsrobin said:
A hidden motive I see you work for TAG don't you.
No Robin I don't. Also I'm not called Peter Skellan either so I wouldn't bother repeating that. Peter Skellan was the lead character in Who Dares wins the seminal 1982 film played by the late Lewis Collins (RIP). I suspect that several people who were fans of this film growing up have used it for anonymous internet discussion forum accounts. There may even be a few real Peter Skellans registered on the net.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Dares_Wins_(fi...
converted lurker said:
Guys you don't understand. The other pilot is there for much more than the very tiny numbers of times a pilot dies at the controls. Every single day all around the world the other pilot in commercial ops is there to tell his colleague to stop doing that/reconsider this/I'm not happy with this/this is going wrong/go around/I have control going around.
Odd then, that you should be spouting CRM touchy-feely gospel, given your long history of spewing pig-headed didactic crap across the internet. You must be a real joy to work with.converted lurker said:
When I'm a billionaire I will insist that my private jet operation has two crews and uses runways with 1.6 times the length available that is required to land in the manual written by the company test pilot on a nice day. That way I will survive instead of being one of the many many bizjet fireballs that we have witnessed over the years.
So we can add fantasist narcissism to your list of personal qualities.Frankly, chum, if you really are still employed in commercial air transport, and if you really do care about promoting aviation safety, then your best course of action would be to take indefinite medical leave and take up fishing.
Given the way you've presented yourself here, the only conclusion must be that any flight deck you're involved with must be some manifestation of CRM hell-on-earth, and that you personally are an accident waiting for a grid-reference.
eharding said:
So we can add fantasist narcissism to your list of personal qualities.
Frankly, chum, if you really are still employed in commercial air transport, and if you really do care about promoting aviation safety, then your best course of action would be to take indefinite medical leave and take up fishing.
Given the way you've presented yourself here, the only conclusion must be that any flight deck you're involved with must be some manifestation of CRM hell-on-earth, and that you personally are an accident waiting for a grid-reference.
Do you not understand the differences between an anonymous discussion forum and your place of work?Frankly, chum, if you really are still employed in commercial air transport, and if you really do care about promoting aviation safety, then your best course of action would be to take indefinite medical leave and take up fishing.
Given the way you've presented yourself here, the only conclusion must be that any flight deck you're involved with must be some manifestation of CRM hell-on-earth, and that you personally are an accident waiting for a grid-reference.
When someone uses the expression 'when I'm a billionaire' they may just be it be serious about their expectation of ever being so.
I would love to reply to Ginetta Girls posting on the Gnat thread but I've been thread banned so I can't. This defence of a Banker who jacked in his RAF 'career' at the early part of the Hawk course to make millions in the City so he could afford to play around at weekends in a Gnat is puzzling.
Edited by converted lurker on Wednesday 5th August 02:36
converted lurker said:
Well it's not a rule but there's not many Typhoon/Tornado/Hawk guys on flying tours over 40 are there. Fast jet flying has always been a young mans game. The medicals are extensive - certainly compared to a middle eastern civvy annual check.
I'll be sure to pass that on - many of my colleagues will be delighted that they can now be put safely out to grass and not worry about Ops any more. Surely you aren't suggesting that a class1 medical from the Middle East isn't every bit as comprehensive as one from the UK, US or anywhere else, for that matter?
converted lurker said:
Well it's not a rule but there's not many Typhoon/Tornado/Hawk guys on flying tours over 40 are there. Fast jet flying has always been a young mans game. The medicals are extensive - certainly compared to a middle eastern civvy annual check.
I'll be sure to pass that on - many of my colleagues will be delighted that they can now be put safely out to grass and not worry about Ops any more. Surely you aren't suggesting that a class1 medical from the Middle East isn't every bit as comprehensive as one from the UK, US or anywhere else, for that matter?
wokkadriver said:
Surely you aren't suggesting that a class1 medical from the Middle East isn't every bit as comprehensive as one from the UK, US or anywhere else, for that matter?
They're are definitely differing standards of medical examination From country to country. Even in the UK they differ from AME to AME. Where I get mine done, one AME is booked up months in advance and another always has availability the next day. 
converted lurker said:
I would love to reply to Ginetta Girls posting on the Gnat thread but I've been thread banned so I can't. This defence of a Banker who jacked in his RAF 'career' at the early part of the Hawk course to make millions in the City so he could afford to play around at weekends in a Gnat is puzzling.
If your continually distasteful about a recently deceased individual I can see exactly why your banned from replying, you keep forgetting that people on this forum may have shared a pint with the gent, a friend or his relatives maybe scouring the internet finding answers and these threads do show up in searches. Just because you can be anonymous on the Internet doesn't give you the right to be so insensitive! Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff